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(Deleted comment) tech_rex May. 31st, 2011 12:21 am (local) I checked through his gallery and my email account, sadly nothing. astralabortion May. 31st, 2011 12:52 am (local) Man, you are bloody lucky I checked LJ after stumbling home tonight. XD Here's the thing: I popped open FA after a near-three-month hiatus back on the 25th and poured through my notes, found yours - I do have your commission, inked, lying around here somewhere, but it's anyone's guess as to which pile of artwork it's in. I thought I'd have some spare time this weekend to sift around and find it, but that proved not to be the case. You've got a few options: 1). Give me a bit of time to sort through my paperwork and find the inked item; I'll scan it and pass it off to you to see if you feel it's worth me moving forward with completion. 2). I do recall this image not being something I was terribly happy with and had a much better idea a while after I first got to work on it. Another option is to give me a little while to whip out that other idea and go from there, though it seems we're well past the point of discussing revisions. 3). Take the full refund. Ball's in your court. I'll be cool with whatever you decide to do. ? fenrirs_child May. 31st, 2011 01:33 am (local) no offense, and i know this has nothing to do with me, but what's with the attitude? bloody lucky? it seems as if you're the one who's not been good with communication, so i think the hostility is far from warranted... astralabortion May. 31st, 2011 01:34 am (local) Would you like to commission me to draw you a custom infographic outlining how little I care about your opinion of my attitude? ? fenrirs_child May. 31st, 2011 01:40 am (local) no, but i'll enjoy the fact that your sarcasm and general abrasiveness will lose you many customers, as i'm sure i won't be the only one reading this here ;3 astralabortion May. 31st, 2011 01:46 am (local) ...you mean, I won't get to draw MORE contrived amalgams of some teenager's anguish over enduring a middle American suburbanite lifestyle? SAY IT AIN'T SO fenrirs_child May. 31st, 2011 01:50 am (local) hey man, your loss. you chose to take these commissions in the first place. if you didn't like the subject matter/commissioners/general audience of your work, perhaps you should have pursued a different hobby and source of income astralabortion May. 31st, 2011 01:56 am (local) Like what? Insider trading? ? fenrirs_child May. 31st, 2011 01:57 am (local) preferably something not customer service oriented. insider trading works fine for me ^^ astralabortion May. 31st, 2011 01:58 am (local) Then I'll see you at the height of the next investment banking scandal on CNN~ 8D oceandezignz May. 31st, 2011 02:07 am (local) I know you originally meant well, but please do not bite the bait next time. oceandezignz May. 31st, 2011 02:06 am (local) Be a little nicer while in this comm please. ducttapeninja May. 31st, 2011 05:47 am (local) Yeah, wow. At first glance of Astral's post I didn't see any attitude at all and thought that maybe Fenrir was overreacting. Then Astral kept replying... Thanks for posting this aware, Tech, and I really hope you get everything straightened out! sbneko May. 31st, 2011 11:23 am (local) Same here, I thought it was just a, how to explain, very buddy buddy way of talking rather then being rude, but then I saw the rest. conigliomannaro May. 31st, 2011 06:55 am (local) Funny, I didn't see any bad attitude in the first answer from the artist, and I briefly thought fenrirs_child was being too touchy, but the rest of the thread proved me wrong. If I was to say who took the bait, I'd say it wasn't the commissioner, but mostly the commissioner. By acting so rude he made clear his true colors. Good job in getting yourself a bad name, dude. Anyway, being things at this stage, I'd ask for a refund and be done with it. God knows I wouldn't want a picture from this person, not even for free. kadaria May. 31st, 2011 07:15 am (local) Checking the tags, it looks like nothing has changed about this artist be it the inability to deliver a product, communicate or type civilly. Notes and email should be enough to get someone's attention. Not hoping that they stumble upon an LJ post. ducttapeninja May. 31st, 2011 08:32 am (local) Yeah, that threw me off. The way Astral was like "Boy, you're lucky I logged onto my LJ and saw this! XD" it was like... What about emails and notes and stuff? You know, the stuff they really should be checking? Not exactly a brilliant idea to imply that the OP is "lucky" they logged onto LJ and saw the post, or they might have never tried to regain touch with them. ? (at least, that's how it came off to me, anyway) draken_art May. 31st, 2011 07:39 am (local) Hrmmn. See this is where knowing Exo personally comes in handy, as I read something entirely different in the text. Remember, what may /seem/ rude or not is how we read into it. Personally I thought that it was his normal sarcasm and wit coming through, and it can be can be sharp but humorous. Inside trader. HA! However, there is a time and place for such things, and often the internet is not one of them due to lack on context. *chuckles* *sighs* spdora May. 31st, 2011 07:44 am (local) Especially with a client, when money is involved, and professionalism is needed. That is certainly the place to drop the act. draken_art May. 31st, 2011 07:46 am (local) Agreed. Even when it is between friends, a little professionalism and tact can go a long way. likeshine May. 31st, 2011 10:09 am (local) i LOLed at the insider trading thing as well, actually nambroth May. 31st, 2011 05:09 pm (local) Yeah pretty much this comment is spot on. I know Exo to some extent and I read that as him being witty, but at the same time I recognize that society (agree or disagree, it is what it is) demands professionalism when dealing in business venues so, yes. There is a time and place. kairi_koitra May. 31st, 2011 08:58 am (local) Same I know exo personally. He isn't trying to come off as rude it's just his sarcastic way of doing things. Many times I think commissioners tend to neglect to look at artists journals and posts reading the normal way the communicate. Sometimes you'll often see commissioners complain about rude or nasty artists but yet at the same time this is how the artist has always been and acts. You can't fault a person for the way they normally are. He's like this with everyone this is exo being exo. He doesn't hide it nor does he try to sho it under the rug. While I can agree he took awhile to get back with the commissioner things happen. It's not an excuse nor does it mean I'm shaking his responcibility to do the work he was paid to do but artists are human to sometimes they forget things and sometimes life just gets in the way. Personally he owes me two works as well but i'm not sweating it he'll get to it when he gets to it. He's probably one of the most critical artists I know he critizies everything he does and redoes things twenty times and still isn't happy with it. But thats how he works he doesn't want to give a commissioner a steaming hot pile of penciled out *crap* but to give them something worth what they paid him to do. Which both he and the commissioner both will be happy. Thats the sign of a good artist and not just a wham bam thank ya mam artist. You get what you pay for. Yes this would entirely be better if he kept in contact more and he isn't even arguing that point but you guys are hanging him out to dry for an attitude that he's always had. That if the orignal commissioner would have read his journal posts or looked at his other ways of reacting to things should have been aware of as well. I'm not saying he's right in the way he act's Im saying he's acting in the way he always has. Tact and professionalism sometimes gets lost in a pile of paperwork. kadaria May. 31st, 2011 09:21 am (local) >Im saying he's acting in the way he always has< And it really hasn't done much for him in the past either if you check the tags where he uses the same attitude and even lies to a customer about a shipping date. Put aside for a moment that this artist is your friend and think about any other customer service job. -Do you think you would last in any of them if you were nasty and sarcastic to your customers? How would your manager respond when you were called on your bad attitude and you told her "That's just the person I am take it or leave it."? -What about if when customers paid you, instead of giving them what they bought you "forgot" about it and kept the money? Would they think you were a good, trustworthy person or a scammer? -How happy are customers when orders are lost, calls not returned or they feel "stiffed" from a deal? How does this look to other people who may be interested in commissioning you? If this keeps happening to him: >Tact and professionalism sometimes gets lost in a pile of paperwork< Then he really shouldn't be in any kind of customer service job, let alone art commissions which require discipline as well as good customer service to thrive. kairi_koitra May. 31st, 2011 09:43 am (local) Again your quoting the same thing he has other posts on here as well. did I in any way shape or form deny that he was wrong in his actions? No. I simply stated that its not only the artists responcibility to complete a piece of work it is also a responcibilty onto a commissioner to do research on an artist before giving them their hard earned money. A lot of commissioners would save themeselves a huge headache and ending up in this situation if they would research an artist before paying them. A friends word is great but using tools such as A_B is even better. Exo has more then one post on here about his habits and manners if people would take the time to read up before paying an artist to do a piece of work things like this wouldn't happen. They would know about his lack of emailing his bad attitude etc. Heck if they would have thumbbed through his journals etc on FA or LJ they would see he has an attitude problem. The point is that his bad attitude is everywhere all people have to do is do a bit of research and they can see it. If I'm going to go to a fancy resturant and spend hard earned money on a meal. I think I'm going to research where i'm going a bit to see if they live up to what i'm paying for. Everyone blames the artists for things but in the same light the commissioners should be held for lack of doing research as well. synatri May. 31st, 2011 09:52 am (local) ... What? So you're saying it's the commissioner's fault that they didn't realize that the artist is a douche before they commissioned him, so it's okay for him to be a douche? Really? hamburger May. 31st, 2011 09:57 am (local) No name-calling, please.

More updates on the commissioning process: So now I just need to see if I can start this process on October 1 which is the deadline we agreed upon for the refund, or August 1, which is the deadline I provided for the suit. She has already told me flat out that she will not refund me by October. Then she later says I need to give her the benefit of the doubt? Either way, I've reported her as a scammer both to the BBB and also to the FTC. I dunno if this is a hot take but if you can't reasonably fit in time to work on fursuits, then maybe don't create a business making fursuits, taking people's money and then walking away with it, and then asking people to accommodate you for years because you're holding their money hostage. Then when people get fed up with the lack of communication, the obvious lack of work ethic, care about what they're doing, and non-stop excuses, then I'm being too aggressive and I'm wasting HER time.

Changed Where to https://twitter.com/BlueFoxFursuits https://twitter.com/daskerlizard https://www.bf-fursuits.com/ https://twitter.com/daskdoodles https://www.camodile.co.uk/ https://t.me/camodileupdate Changed NSFW to No Changed Resolved to No

Update: After SnS hasn't been responding to me, I decided to make a tweet about her, which called out her business (I used her real name in the second tweet about her, so the "blur" in the fifth photo was from the original tweet). She FINALLY responds to me. She decided to send me a partial refund for the troubles. She said that she wasn't able to go to her studio because her leasing manager wouldn't allow her to go back and pick up the suit (due to the stay at home order). She had to make an "appointment" to pick up the suit. I found this weird, because I sent stuff to studio, and it was just an apartment (or it could really be a studio, but I doubt it because she had pictures of her boyfriend in the studio with her, and I'm under the impression that he doesn't contribute to fursuits because she never mentioned him helping with suits). I'm not going to make assumptions, but I just thought that it was a little fishy that she was "kicked out" and had to make an appointment for a (non-essential) business necessity. She was able to pick it up on May 8th, but wasn't able to get it shipped that day. She sent it the next day, but never gave me the tracking number. I asked for the tracking information, and she said that she sent it out a couple days ago. She took an image of the postage for me, and got me a tracking link, but never sent it to me until AFTER I asked her if she shipped it out. She still didn't send a refund. I received the suit, made a video unboxing it, and I noticed issues with the suit. First issue: She acknowledged that she was going to line up the colors with the head and the bodysuit, but they didn't line up (luckily, the colors matched). It's almost as if she didn't know how far that the colors were supposed to go down because it looks like they would've lined up if the head's fabric would've went down further along my chest. However, I suppose that it just kind of looks like "extra chest fluff". It's like an illusion, almost (if that makes sense). It's no big deal, because people will probably not notice it. Second issue: The tail was crooked. She made a free tail for me, and I never knew about it until I unboxed the suit. It skews to the left when it goes down towards the tip. For the third issue, the hand paws have a "black outline" that wraps around the forearm. This is mainly meant to prevent it from sliding. However, this is fur on top of fur. It's going to slide no matter what. She used black instead of white, and because of this, it makes it VERY visible to see whenever the paws are not being tucked in. This is a poor image, but you can still see it: For the fourth, and final issue, I feel like this is the biggest issue of them all. The fabric on the bodysuit as a weird "flap" which looks like it's supposed to cover the feet. I can see why she wanted to do this, but it's poorly executed. When I was wearing this suit for the first time, I thought that there was supposed to be a zipper on the back to "close a gap" behind the legs so that this wouldn't be visible. There's not. Because of this, depending on how I stand or position myself, the flaps around the feet can get bunched up and look really bad for photos (like the previous photo). It looks fine in this picture: But in this picture... You can see that the feet got bunched up. It even looks like a plantigrade suit in this picture. The padding for the digitigrade suit is sewn-in, so that means it will be MUCH harder to clean when I wash it someday. You can even see that "black" part of hand paw in my left arm in the previous picture. She finally sent me the refund, about a week after I received the bodysuit. I am going to be spending the refund money on repairs with the suit. So I will likely end up spending $150-$200 on these repairs and fixes. There was one other minor edit which I needed to the bodysuit, which was extending the midtone colors further behind the suit (the colors between the blue and white on the arms and legs). However, It's such a minor detail that almost every artist misses this detail when I order a commission. Therefore, that is the end of me having to deal with SnS fursuits.

I am so sorry for those who have been scammed and ripped off by FoxyFluffStudios, i'll admit, i'm so lucky that I listened to my gut, and I looked their username up, because not only did I find this amazing thread that consists of lots of information about this user, but they also just attempted to scam me out of $20 on YCH.Commishes, i'll explain my story. So I am a artist who uses DA, Furaffinty, and YCH.Commishes, which I use YCH.Commishes to sell YCH's, Adopts, Custom Designs, ETC, and FoxyFluffStudios auto-purchased a custom design from me, and naturally I became excited, and I had messaged them, and they gave me their paypal information, along with what they wanted, and as I was lining the artwork they wanted, I had noticed that they were acting quite odd and somewhat suspicious, for instance, when I asked for the money, they replied with "I'll be sending it shortly!", and I never received it, and when I tried to get a hold of them, they would just disappear, and they didn't reply to me after a few days later, and last but not least, every time I brought up the money, they would either never reply, or attempt to change the subject. Which at this point, that's when I began to think that something was wrong and something wasn't right, so I did some digging on their YCH.Commishes profile, and I didn't find anything, so I looked their name up, and well... that's why i'm here, because at first I thought I was being paranoid or crazy even, but luckily i'm not the only one who's experienced these things, it puts me at ease, but unfortunately I did waste 2 whole days on making this user artwork, but i'll try to make a positive a negative, and i'll see if I can sell it off somehow.

This whole thing has been a mess and an absolutely frustrating read. You need to inform your clients when you've worked on something if they've not heard from you. I find it suspect that the piece is suddenly ~mysteriously being worked on~ after 4 months of silence just to guilt you into rescinding your refund request. (and as far as I can tell, no proof of such work was ever shown to the client) The only work done at all was after the commission was changed to stickers. As for the sticker work itself, I think the work is on par with the rest of the artist's work, I don't really get the impression it was rushed so much. As for the hugs sticker, I think it's less that it was rushed and more that the artist just wasn't skilled in foreshortening like that. But I think the fingers still could have been adjusted slightly to look more conical instead of rounded. None of the changes you requested were unreasonable, and I find it really odd that they were so reluctant to add any sort of boarder themselves and instead shame you for requesting such a border. Did they just expect you to use the stickers with the solid color background? That's not typical telegram sticker format and it's really just not great looking for that. Like geeze I'd just add the border for the client myself. You had been completely reasonable and polite the whole way through, this didn't have to turn out the way it did. Either refunding from the very beginning or just doing the minor adjustments on the stickers. There was nothing about your conduct that there was to be a 'beware' about, and the refund and public release of the stickers is incredibly petty. That's a 100+ deep queue, along with 2 fursuits and it's not even small things, a lot of those are ref sheets, full bodies, an 'art slave' commission which typically I find those are a lot of work. I also find a policy of only 75% refund when it's been less than 6 months, even if no work has been done at all, completely inappropriate when the queue is that bad. That's a policy you have for fursuits because of supply purchases, not for illustrations and waiting on something that already is going to have an absurd wait time. As if their conduct here wasn't bad enough, that queue alone would stop me from doing business with them. 😕

Until something is done to protect people who pay for fursuits, this will always happen. There is too much power in the hands of the suit makers and this just opens the way up to scammers. Paying over 3000$ upfront for something and having a no-refund policy slammed in your face is disgusting. I get that this person didn't nessaserily have a no-refund policy, but you never really got a refund anyway. This is why from now on I'll be paying the whole amount at once through goods and services, and if progress isn't made within the PayPal deadline for a refund, I'll be making a claim. Been scammed way to often by fursuit makers, and something needs to be done. Cost of the materials up front, payment on completion. That's how it should be. I'm sorry you had so much trouble. Some Fursuit makers, new and old, seem to be getting way too greedy and taking way more orders than they can handle. Because fursuits take way to long to make after payment, PayPal will not cover the refund because "too much time has passed" this really has to be addressed somehow.

I was only made aware of this post today and am making a timely reply. A few things I would like to highlight: The advertisement on Twitter made warranties as to features and of suitability of purpose for people with heads under a 25" circumference. It was never sold "as is." The partial suit in question breached all three, and therefore it is reasonable to expect a return. After Sarahcat refused the return, I directed Alexander to dispute the transactions during a teleconference with himself and his attorney. The merchandise remains at the address to which it was sent. It remains unused, unaltered, and in new condition. I consider the merchandise to have reverted to Sarahcat's ownership as soon as the refunds hit Alexander's credit card. Soon after I was reimbursed. After the dispute, we refrained from shipping the fursuit back to the shipping address because we were not sure what to do. I have never been a party to a credit card dispute, so I delegated the matter to Alexander since it was his card. Instead, we were awaiting instructions from Sarahcat, PayPal, or his bank on how and when to return it. We received no such instructions between the resolution of the credit card dispute and now either via... postal mail at the address to which it was sent, e-mail to the PayPal account's address, or e-mail to my personal address where I initially requested the refund and also requested further correspondence be directed. The Terms of Service on Sarahcat's website ( https://archive.is/MWrv3 )as of 3 May were updated on 13 March 2021, well after the dispute. However, these Terms of Service are moot first because I never agreed to them, and also as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, they did not cover pre-made fursuits. I would never agree to purchase anything this expensive sight unseen without the option to return. To my knowledge, there was no police report or other statement made under penalty of perjury. Given the magnitude of the transaction, I would expect that one was filed. I believe that Sarahcat did not file one because the resolution would not have been the one she wanted. The reason I have not been more proactive about this matter is because of the acrimony that this has caused, and because of my own inexperience dealing with these matters. I feared that pleading my case would only exacerbate this temper tantrum which I now describe: Sarahcat has accused me of a felony (grand theft) in front of an audience of over 10,000 people. She has incited people to harass me across various social media, including Twitter, Telegram, and FurAffinity. She has dissuaded artists from accepting my commissions. Therefore, I refrained from addressing this until today when someone sent a note threatening to abuse my intellectual property. I continue to await instructions to affect the fursuit's return. I am out of the country right now but when I am back, I am happy to act on them provided that Sarahcat ceases this prolonged harassment campaign and is willing to publicise the resolution of this matter. I have sent an e-mail to Sarahcat with an offer to this effect.

@Sivi yeah, and I can’t tell if they’ve seen my messages either. If I ever get the art, I’ll update or resolve this, but I doubt that’ll happen. I’m “lucky” that I only got a chibi because I can only imagine how much more I’d be annoyed if it was for the price of their fullbodies. I feel kind of dumb that I was too passive for too long, but I don’t think I could have predicted this would happen- I tend to see the best in people. Now that you mentioned the rabbit thing… that is really weird. I hadn’t thought of how strange that was. They were able to message me without the cable, so I’m sure they could have made some post? Their post said they were stressed with college but that was not what they told me. To be fair, I think both played a part because they at least sent a pic of the gnawed on cords.

Hi there! My auction listings state in the website's refund policy "no refunds," I already have a warning in all caps at the beginning of the descriptions of my auctions about this sort of thing. I have been selling fursuits for 10 years. This is the first time I have had someone attempt something like this on a pre-made item (6 years ago on a previous beware, a commission). It's not that frequent. People typically know better. It is an unfortunate learning experience, but it is impossible to outright avoid people with shady intentions. As per my TOS I only conduct business for commissions over email, although this is not a commission the client initially contacted me through Telegram about buying the suit but refused to do business over email claiming Telegram (as you can tell that was a lie). There really is not much I can do about it in this situation, it is in the past, and I have already started drilling this into current client's heads since some people claim they don't receive emails or prefer Telegram or Twitter.

Just as a final update on the matter (hopefully): ex-client stopped harassing us with new accounts and so far we didn’t receive any extra updates on their stories (seems like they set it to private and that’s totally fine by us; in their safe space with the people they trust they can share anything they want. Our problem was with the open-public harassment they were doing). For future reference, as for this specific situation we had never terminated a commission on this stage of development before. We try our best to provide a good experience for our clients, but we’re very strict with our TOS. Since the beginning this negotiation was walking the line of us being too soft with our own terms (trying to be sensible with the client and at the moment thinking the project would be good portfolio material so it was worth being more flexible), and in the end we got the raw side of the deal. Since we’re a new studio not much can be found of us online at the moment, sadly. As the brand our opinions on the matter might be taken less earnestly by people who do’t know us or our service, and for that we welcome anyone to ask our clients directly how the experience of working with us was. Most of them are tagged on our IG posts (of course, respecting their privacy and space). We thank you all for your time and attention on this matter and from this entire situation we plan on changing a few things on our TOS and procedures from Artistic Liberty in the future to prevent this kind of stuff from happening again [we’ll share here so other makers can have this testimonial to refer to if they want]: ▫️We’ll add a more detailed clause on cancellations // terminations on these designs made by us to prevent further claim discussions about this. ▫️The cancellation from our side will be more explained since for us Artistic Liberty slots are pick with the main objective of being a fun project and a good portfolio material. If during negotiations the client requests changes that make the project less interesting from production we’ll reserve ourselves to terminate the quote. We’ll also make it clear that on Regular Commissions the client has all the freedom in the world to request any changes desired, to request a character to be created from 0 and pay for that kind of service accordingly (our Artist Liberty services are way cheaper than regular commissions for that reason, and we plan on letting this more clear on the TOS too). ▫️We’ll stop being way too reasonable with clients that send a quote request for this kind of project without having the money to pay upfront the initial nonrefundable 30% of the commission price. Most of the cases of clients that stole our art were from people who didn’t have the money upfront to pay but wanted to move forward with the commission anyway, under their word of paying us in the future. We trust our clients until being scammed, and for that reason we plan on protecting ourselves more from that kind of situation. ▫️We will request an ID from now on after the quote is analyzed and approved. Working overseas might making check those IDs more difficult but it’s better than having this kind of headache again in the future. ▫️Clarify even more that designs created during quote or during commission process are property of the studio until payment is complete and no designs can be claimed on cancellations // terminations. We’ll be stricter with also the use of unpaid claimed designs to be made into fursuits by other makers (that didn’t happen before, but better safe than sorry). ▫️Making sure to attach a PDF version of our TOS in the quote confirmation email and ask the client to read and confirm agreement again before sending the invoice for the project. ▫️Proofreading all the TOS with English native speakers to make the terms as clear as possible for future clients (as it is right now it was only proofread by Brazilian translators). We welcome you and thank you in advance in helping us with your suggestions on this TOS changes, and we plan on posting a more detailed text on the forums, but feel free to PM/email us suggestions or corrections, we don’t want to flood this beware with further replies that are not direct related to the subject.