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As an update to this, since initially submitting this post I have received my commission. I received a response to my message on August 12th along with a WIP and had a chat with netcrow that leads me to believe they genuinely wanted to rectify the situation and plan to change & improve how they handle commissions going forward. I received the finished piece today and am very happy with it and appreciate them being understanding towards the situation and why I had submitted a beware here:
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Welp, apparently my other artist friend who got caught in the same web, actually lost. I personally don't have yet anything because there's still the thing about them talking with the bank, but in the meantime of course I keep receiving emails about the debt and this last one of today, they're literally threatening me to take actions and ask to third party agencies to retrieve the 200€ amount. I'm totally screwed. That's just wonderful.
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Changed Resolved to Yes
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Good to hear! We've marked this as resolved!
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Hello all, I have good news. The artist did reach out to me and apologized. We managed to figure out the issue and the art has since been completed. KRB also did an additional piece of art that neither my friend nor I asked for or paid for. He said he did it because he felt bad about the situation. He also offered me a refund after completing both artworks, but I turned it down because I did not want to feel that I had taken advantage of him in any way. Thankfully my friend hasn't been dragged into the unpleasantness that happened at first either, so I'm glad about that too. For general clarification, this was not a fun process for me. I hate being "That Guy" and calling someone out. I'm just glad it's all over and both the artist and I can move on from this. Skipped ahead a little bit
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NaughtySav changed their profile photo -
If I were you, I would just repurpose the drawing entirely. You could probably remove all the original characteristics and sell it as a YCH or a base. As a base, I'd sell it for $15 a piece on something like Gumroad (all it'd take is 3 purchases to reclaim your money) and as a YCH, I'd sell it for $20-$25 per character slot ($45 for both characters) or higher if it comes with a background or other custom elements. It would really spite the "commissioner" and give you your money back For all it's worth, I'm sorry you had to go through this. I agree with the others that it would've been best to ask for half upfront and half after it's completed. If the thought of asking for money upfront seems intimidating to you, I'd recommend only showing them a small thumbnail of the initial sketch and then asking for money before working on changes or continuing otherwise. That way, it'd be a lot easier to repurpose it if they refuse to pay and you wouldn't lose too much time.
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Just as an aside, since this appears to be a bank initiated chargeback, this can happen on any payment processor that you're using. Changing away from PayPal won't prevent these kinds of incidents from happening.
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Yeah, in fact right now I'm under 200€ because of it. I just hope that this isn't the case and I can actually win this claims. Otherwise like I said, paypal is dead to me. Never again i'm gonna trust it for commissions and stuff. Don't know if I mentioned that? I don't think I did probably. Within all of the three claims he did, I actually sent them proof of the payment he did voluntarily and the works that I sent to him after receiving money. I sent to PayPal all of the proofs they need to see that is all legitimate and not something false. I just hope, hope, that I'll win this.
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Back in November 2021 (on the 14th specifically), I saw that netcrow had opened for emergency commissions and messaged them to inquire about a 3-panel page since I love their art and was excited to get an opportunity to commission them. Here is the exact tweet of theirs advertising their commissions: It was stated that turnaround times would be "very slow" and I understood that they were dealing with health issues, so I was aware of this ahead of time. However I did not expect to be where I'm at currently, going on 9 months since I commissioned them without having received any proof of my comm being started, with every deadline they have provided being missed and very poor (or lack thereof) communication. I'm not writing this out of malice but to make other clients aware and to hopefully motivate netcrow to work out a better sort of routine or workflow for managing their commissions. Shortly after I messaged them on the 14th, I received a reply stating that my commission had been accepted and we then went over further details: Initially, I was told that that I could expect the first WIP "that week." That week passed without me receiving anything, but it was no big deal to me since I understood everything they were dealing with, and I was content to wait longer. I did not hear from them again until February 10 of this year, when I reached out to give them an updated ref for my OC after being reminded of my comm from seeing them open for another batch of commissions: I received an apology for the wait and was given a new time for when I could expect the first WIP. I absolutely do/still did understand what they were dealing with so again, I was content to wait further but was admittedly excited about being able to lookout for a WIP again. The week after this came and went however, and again, I did not hear anything from them nor did I end up actually receiving one. Several more months passed, and I still did not hear anything from them. I was starting to get concerned at this point so I reached out again on June 18th to inquire about the status of my commission and ask to know where I was at in their queue: What really alarmed me is how netcrow stated that they have "no particular queue," but again, I tried to be optimistic and as understanding as possible. At this time I received another apology and was told that they would try to get my commission that month and "maybe even finish it." To their credit I have seen them posting some finished commissions, but almost every one has been captioned as being "very overdue" or "extremely old" such as the ones below: Between the time of June 19 - August 7 I did not hear from them anytime; it was radio silence again. More recently, I informed some friends and other artists about the situation to ask for advice, which has lead to me now writing this beware and reaching out to them again. On the morning of August 8th, I messaged netcrow again expressing my concerns and requesting that they provide a firm deadline for providing a sketch: At the time of me submitting this beware, I have not heard back yet. Like I've stated, I truly do not mean this out of any sort of malice but simply out of concern and frustration. I wish the absolute best for netcrow with navigating their health issues, but this is not a good way to manage commissions and I'm figuring that other clients of theirs may be in the same or similar positions. I'm a very patient person and do my best to be as polite and understanding as possible, but the lack of communication and lack of a proper queue here have me greatly concerned and anxious as I am out of $320 with not even a sketch to show for it 9 months later. I still do love their art and would love to receive my commission, but the long periods of silence and overall experience have me a bit down :[ I don't wish to come across as a spiteful or mean individual whatsoever.
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Koroner changed their profile photo -
To rephrase it more clearly in case my ramblings were unclear, I don't send through PayPal but the email connected to the buyer's PayPal account. (The one that PayPal uses to notify them of invoices/payment receipts/ect.) PayPal prefers direct links to the PayPal email for communication in order to verify it was, in fact, the PayPal account holder. (Their logic is that anyone could use a third party social media site and pretend to be someone by giving an other's email as part of a scam/theft.) Because of this, we should all be using only email for commission communication, but there's still the issue of NSFW discussion threatening our accounts. A step below that is my suggestion of having proof that something was sent to the buyer, as a lot of scammers will claim nothing was sent to them at all. I can't tell how this buyer actually paid you, but I would further recommend sending an invoice with an attached ToS, making sure "shipping info" is set to not required and specifying the payment is for digital goods/commission work. While I hope PayPal decides to pay you back out of their own pocket, I would start prepping for a lose just in case.
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If Paypal is saying they need to talk to his bank, then this is one of those instances where it's not their fault. They don't really get a say in what happens because the issue didn't arise through them. A chargeback = initiated through a bank. Bypasses Paypal. Usually smacks you with an extra charge beyond the initial sale. Paypal can't do anything in these instances except refund you out of their own pocket if they so wish. Usually sellers lose these because most banks and cards have fraud protection which guarantees the actual cardholder gets their money back. A claim = initiated through Paypal. This is where Paypal's team reviews a case and decides in favor of someone.
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Appreciated. Luckily they were all SFW renders, so nothing nude or anything sexual. About talking with the right person, I contacted the customer service so many times and they all told me the same stuff, that unfortunately I have to wait at least 75 days before it gets solved (because, supposedly, they're talking with the bank of the dude), and I hope it will get in my favor. Otherwise paypal is dead to me and they can keep that debt because sure as hell I'm not gonna pay it, no matter what. It's not my fault and the screenshots I sent to them are the proof and I really, really hope that they take that into consideration. The fact of sending stuff through paypal, that's a new thing. Thanks for telling me. If this gets solved, I'll definitely keep that in mind!
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I'm sorry this happened to you, and I hope you talked to the right person in PayPal because they rarely take third party screenshots are acceptable evidence. You also need to be careful of PayPal seeing anything NSFW, as that's against their ToS and could close your account. Something I've been doing for a while now is send an email to the client's PayPal email with the files attached/a link to the final renders via mega.nz if the files are exceptionally large/NSFW. The email basically explains that I'm sending over the final product and to back up the files because I do not guarantee to have copies if they lose the larger sizes. That way I have a solid proof of delivered product for PayPal in case of a chargeback.
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In the future I wish artists would let their clients know they'd be busy instead of promising work, then posting photos at cons and expecting the client to just, know they'll be strung along for over a year because of it. What irks me is the promise of work then never doing it. I'm not sure why so many artists have trouble just admitting they can't work at the moment and just promise something they know they can't deliver Hopefully going forward the artist learns from these mistakes.
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That is correct. In hindsight, I could have done more to try and either get my money back, especially because this was not just my money. At the time I thought it was simply a matter of doing colored commissions last or something of the sort. It's an important lesson learned, and hopefully something both the artist and I will move on from in time.
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We understand that RhinoBoy and some of his fans may be acting out on Twitter at the moment and that the subject of this beware himself is asking for understanding: But how can OP give any more understanding when it's been over a year; April 2021-October 2021 there is nothing January 2022 a promise of a sketch April 2022 ... a promise of a sketch June 2022 another promise And... nothing. Regardless of his schedule if he knows he's busy running his con and other businesses; he should refund and not leave people hanging if he can't communicate directly to clients rather than tweet he's sorry. Even now his immediate QRT from the AV Twitter is asking for more patience than he deserves... I hope he realizes that in the end: this beware is not being "a Karen" (talk about watering down a term) this beware is asking for accountability and anyone who tells Rhino it's OKAY is no better enabling bad behavior.
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That is some poor communication especially since you waited patiently for about a year I'm sure your past the protection period.
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May 5, 2014 https://artists-beware.livejournal.com/763782.html It was rejected first cause it was too early, but since she blocked me after trying to solve it, I think it's fair to post it now. WHO: Skippy-Adopts http://skippy-adopts.deviantart.com/ WHERE: Skippy-Adopts on DeviantART not sure about other accounts. WHAT: An adoptable I bought, then was taken back forcefully without notifying me at all. WHEN: May 11th 2013 PROOF: On May 11th-12th I saw a cute adoptable (screenshots in case of deleted.) on DeviantArt and decided to autobuy it. The paid for transaction for points was too far back in my transactions however it still shows it in her donation pool on her page. EXPLAIN: On May 12th I autobought an adoptable from Skippy-Adopts as stated above. Today I posted I'm re-homing my characters because they no longer get the love they used to get. So I wanted them to have better attention and posted a journal that they're for sale/trade for other stuff. I've had this character since a while so it comes with a bunch of art but even so after a while it didn't get the attention it used to get anymore. So couple days ago I got notified that Skippy re-sold the design I bought from her without my permission or notifying me at all. (screenshot because she removed it) So basically it was stolen from me as well as all the art, did a few tiny changes to the design and that's it. I left a comment on it that it was harsh and just unfair to claim it back, because I care for characters and getting their deserved love. But this is just rude and I felt betrayed. I notified the person who bought that re-sold design that they will have to deal with a twin one. They said they're fine with that, I told them I'm not sure if I ever find a new owner for her if the new owner would be alright with that. I didn't mind on my part but the art would not be related to it. I commented that it wasn't fair on the re-sold submission, days later Philo commented she wanted her points back when I told her the situation whereby I commented again "the only way to solve it was to refund her the points and delete the re-sold adoptable." Apparently she went for the way so I couldn't reply to her by blocking me after removing. Now that I'm re-posting this as of today, she deleted the image and has blocked me so I couldn't contact back at all. I wish she handled this maturely and apologized for stealing back the character, but instead she took the attitude way out to block me. Please beware of this person if you adopt(ed) something, who knows who will be next with getting their character stolen back without knowing, just because you want to give it a better home.
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adiago tends to blow a lot of hot air when she’s in the complete wrong. refusing to finish a clients commission because of personal reasons is unprofessional; and for someone who boasts that she’s 100% professional industry artist, it’s not a good look. seriously a senior business paypal account? i’ve never heard of that in my entire time of using paypal. i know she’ll pull out phrases out of thin air to make it sound like she knows and you’re in the wrong. as crummy as it is, paypal does side with clients over artists in any situation. even if the artist delivers the work in a timely manner. i know it’s past that window, but despite her empty threats i would have pushed the charge back. hopefully future clients of hers sees this and cancels work with her.
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Their treatment of you is abhorrent, like the name calling on stream and threatening your commission, solely because you weren't 24/7 socialising with them. What a nightmare.
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I know that we asked you to cut a lot out due to trying to keep into the scope of the site. Adiago has been like this for over a decade, so while I commend you for trying to see the good in people as per your text in a previous submission, I'm baffled why people continue to work with her in the first place. I suppose with the loss of LJ archives/ lack of use of LJ where a lot of this was documented people don't know too much about her history. Thank you for coming forward, Raven. It's a beware well warranted.
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Also see the trello for the stickers; its got a big ol CANCELLED on it.
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There is something extremely uncomfortable with Adiago starting to have issues with you over something so simple. Especially since she started accusing you of copying other drakes in that moment.
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While this person certainly has a substantial, easily bruised ego, I think it would be helpful to have more context for "I found out that Adiago had no plans to honor my commissions due to my leaving." the screenshot only says, as best I can figure out, that the person wasn't going to do it in that one stream or whatever, even if entirely out of spite. Though the making up of extra fees just because Adiago felt like it and promising to work more slowly for the same reason would in themselves justify a page here.
