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  1. Today
  2. So I checked my telegram. The chat is still there and still open. She goes by KittenNya on Telegram.
  3. Yesterday
  4. Last week
  5. I'd honestly advise to give out sketch edit WIPs anyway, especially if it's a species change or stuff has to be added to the base (example: hairstyles, wings, accessories, etc.) just to be on the safer side. It allows the customer to ask for changes before any serious work has been done which can save you a lot of time later and accidents like this one can be avoided easily.
  6. So many red flags throughout this entire transaction. But you handled it very well, you have a good grasp of how this sort of business works despite not having gotten much art. I applaud you.
  7. I don't usually show sketch edits of YCHs because the post I made regarding the YCH has the sketch base in it already. That combined with the fact that they handed be their entire FA gallery as their reference(they have less than a page of pics though), with differing styles for the cheek fluff, so I assumed leaving the fluff style I already had would be fine (it's bad to assume though >.>). And the "2 triangles" on the cheeks was actually represented in some of their pics, so I edited it to, again, what was represented in the gallery. All in all, I worked with what I was given, still should have asked though >.> As I said, I don't typically show sketches for YCHs as they have already seen the sketch in my post, and I've never had an issue with it until this point. I'm also usually given a single clear reference, so I think that was the biggest problem there, I should have asked for a single reference.
  8. I admittedly wouldn't have charged for such a minor edit, however I probably would have asked further clarification questions before I actually made the edit itself. Hearing a request phrased as 'two triangles on the cheek' and nothing more would have made me follow up with 'what do you mean two triangles, do you have examples?' because that's too dang vague to work with and I value my time. And while I know it was a YCH do you ever show the edit sketch stage before you finish things up to your clients? I feel like this whole thing could have easily been avoided had WIP been shown sooner. I can only speculate of course, seeing as I have no idea what the type of finish was intended for the piece.
  9. I would say that you didn't specifically fail to do anything as it was a learning experience of why it's valuable to take a bit of your time to make sure your TOS is in clear view at all time when relevant. The whole reason anyone makes a TOS is for you safety and sanity. Having it visible and making sure people agree to it beforehand makes sure that they are responsible for their actions from that point forward that conflict with what was already agreed to. You have a TOS, it's easily accessible, but the saying goes, "An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of a cure." It's one of those customer service quirks because there's always going to be someone that misses something in the TOS that will make them responsible for something. Regardless of how, why, or when they miss these things all you can do is try to be as clear and diligent as possible. A good way to think of it is that rather than failing to do something or you being at fault is that you have learned that sometimes you need to take extra steps to have your bases covered because people will avoid reading, not look, or not even bother with the TOS in most cases. Most of the time it's not really an issue as most people don't have unreasonable demands to begin with, but when dealing with the wild world of customer service you will always find a way to see or hear of something completely new.. for better or worse. Also, the editing fees aren't really a big deal in my opinion. I usually will give tips if I felt like I bothered an artist more than usual and they didn't charge for edits. As long as you maintain a calm demeanor and try to reason with your clients you'll maintain a good standing with most folks. Professionalism goes a long way to preventing drama or misunderstandings. It's fine to be nice or personable, but sometimes a healthy business attitude will serve you well in the long run. Hope my insight helped you!
  10. I feel that maybe the fumble is on both of us equally. Most artists do have a TOS, so commissioners, I feel, should at least be aware of that, and that each commission they buy is not a "no strings attached" type of thing. I don't hide my TOS, it's easy to find. But I really SHOULD have posted it in the YCH post, so I guess I did fail at that. Though I'm always one to look for the TOS and ask questions first before buying, I shouldn't assume others to the same I guess 😕
  11. (Note, they didn't give me specific references, just linked to their FA account) 1. The first edit was free, I looked through their gallery (a few times actually) and noticed the cheek fluff is in a variety of styles, though the triangle spike style did show up a few times, but since other pics showed a kinda normal look to it, I just decided not to change what I already had. And when they asked for an edit to include the little triangle spikes, I did it without issue. The exact sentence they used was " Just the 2 little triangle spikes on each side will do it." And that's exactly what I did and did not charge for it. That was all the first edit. The second edit was when they edited my pic and then described what they wanted differently than the first time. Instead of "spikes" (which I interpreted as what was displayed in their gallery and on the actual pokemon itself) they wanted it more like the original but longer with more strands and detail. I feel like they just gave me conflicting descriptions, so I asked for compensation. 2. Editing was easy I guess? I have the lines and colors on different layers. Plus I had a blush layer for the cheeks, so in total only three layers to edit. 3. Thanks for the info, I think I may stand my ground on no editing. Edit: This was in response to Celestina
  12. Re: the edits, I second everything Celestina said, but I wanted to add some further advice in general because of what you said about your TOS gave me pause. In the future, simply having it posted freely available should not be enough. Linking it on your YCH posts going forward is also a good step, but I would also, before accepting money, specifically link your TOS to your clients and have them respond with clear, written agreement to it. Assuming your clients read and agreed to your TOS just because it's freely available isn't good business practice, and unless this client specifically expressed that they had read and agreed to your terms before going in to the transaction, holding them to a TOS they clearly weren't aware even existed... I kiiiind of feel that fumble is on you, sorry. 😞 You, and others, are free to disagree with me on that, but situations like this is exactly why you should always have this in writing.
  13. For your first question: Were the triangle fur pieces clearly visible on the given references? If no, then you are within your rights to charge for an edit. If yes, then the error should be fixed without charge as it is artist error. The edit price is fair, especially if you do not work in a manner that lends itself to easy editing. (Every little thing I do is on a separate layer for ease of edits. It can be very resource intensive on some computers.) As for other folks editing your work you are within your rights to decline edits, and even file a DMCA against unauthorized edits. The latter is a burn the bridge scenario. Personally, I do not allow edits unless the edits themselves are clearly identified. If they do a poor job, then that's your name that is associated with it. Edit: After a bit of digging (sorry!) it appears that Pokemon does have two triangle spikes as part of their default design. If you're unfamiliar with later gen Pokemon, then it's understandable that it may have come off as a stylistic choice. If it were me I would fix it free of charge given it's part of the default design.
  14. So I sold a multi-slot YCH a couple weeks ago, and all takers have been happy with the completed images, but one wanted an edit. They described the edit as needing "2 triangle spikes" on the cheeks (it's a pokemon OC), and that's exactly what I did and asked if it looked better, I did not ask for an extra charge on that edit. They came back to me and said I was close and then kinda edited the image itself to show me what they wanted, which was not 2 triangle spikes specifically, more like fur hanging down clumped into two chunks, and they said to replicate what I did with the hair on the cheeks (more detailed with finer strands and such), so not so much just "2 triangle spikes." So I asked for a little extra for the edits, only $7. (Original YCH price was $40) They then said that they felt blindsided by the extra change, and then said their SO (and their friends) would only charge $5 for such a thing, and said they'd only pay $5 for it, and if I didn't take that, they'd just edit it themselves to their liking. They didn't ask if they could edit, just said they would. This was my response to their last email: " As for edit charges, I do mention charging extra in my TOS for things, especially after the sketch phase, but since I typically don't show the sketch for YCHs I always let a single edit go for free. A good rule of thumb is to always read the TOS of an artist you're buying art from, even if it's a YCH. My TOS is linked on my profile as well as in the header and footer of my journal. But here's a direct link for convenience. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NQ9Wpqb5uBAyeWzr0BXHdZT23kfsbd1DDl1-NuGuSrY/edit Pricing is up to the artists' discretion, so it's a bit unfair to compare one artists prices to anothers. I'll decline the $5 offer and just post the original. Also, I'd prefer you not edit my art, at least not without asking permission first. And thank you for the kind words, I will also take this as a learning experience. I'll make sure to clear up any confusion regarding my TOS, and maybe start linking it in my YCH posts so it's not missed " So, a few things. Was I wrong to suddenly add an extra fee for a second edit? If not, was the edit price fair? And what would be the best response for that "edit it themselves" thing? I prefer people not edit my art, or at the very least ask first, but idk if I'm just being stingy. (I left the link to my TOS in the email copy, in case anyone needs and clarification on what it says.)
  15. Positive reviews for Armaina
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  17. Holy wow! I have never seen an artist try to do that before. You handled it amazingly well though!
  18. I was highly disappointed, as I have bought from her before on my old account. And while she was definitely slow with finishing it, it did indeed get done and I did not have to keep asking for updates. Heres to hoping this helps give her a nudge and if not, help warn others.
  19. You mention you've not had a lot of experience in getting commission work of your characters, but you seem to have a very good sense of what is or isn't good business as you were very spot on in every point you made. (also a little fistbump for sticking up for your previous commission work's artist) Almost nothing about this is appropriate for the artist to handle this commission. From the solicitation to the very end, every step was so poorly made on their part. Any artist that has been doing commission work for some time should be using invoices for everything. It helps the artist keep it organized, it gives the clients a much more reliable paper trail of what they commissioned. And that's before even getting into the matter that specifically requesting a client to pay for or avoid the transaction fee, is a direct violation of PayPal's policy. I'd highly suggest avoiding any artist in the future that insists on Friends and Family payment. I'm also floored that they blame you for the lack of updates. They could have at any point left you a message, Discord doesn't just reject messages for people that are offline, it even lets you know if a message didn't go through so it's not like there would be any ambiguity. They could have cut off the piece, asked you for clarification, anything, but they didn't put in any of their own due diligence in ensuring the work was accurate or that they judged their own time appropriately. "No artist wants to see what another artist drew in regards to a commission" This statement is the one that I just can't get my head around. This is clearly a person that has very little experience in doing commission work outside of video game characters. I assure you, everything about that statement is not true, so much of my work and other's work relies heavily on other artists' renditions of the characters and unique characters will have refsheets drawn by another artist. Knowing what you like about how another artist drew your character helps the next artist know what to shoot for in their piece, and even knowing what didn't turn out quite right, can help the next artist know what to avoid. All I can hope is that they learn from this in order to better conduct themselves and gauge their time in the future.
  20. Yeah, the moment they asked the payment to be sent as a gift I'd have nope'd on outta there. Doing that makes you both totally unprotected if something goes south. Beware well warranted
  21. Realizing they under charged after the agreement has already been made is a very poor business practice. That mistake should rest with the artist. On top of that, their attempts to accuse me of things I did not do or say in addition to stating they would go ahead and finish the piece -after- I had told them I was done with them and then blocking me is highly insulting. I will not be using the F&F option on Paypal ever again for any artist I commission.
  22. Holy moly. This one is intense. Firstly, never send payment as Friends and Family. Artists who insist clients only send via F&F can have Paypal restrict or even close their account if they're caught abusing it. The fees are business operating fees and should never be shifted to the customer. Second, almost every commission artist has been in a situation where they realized they undercharged. You bite the bullet and remember it for next time. Thank you for this.
  23. I was approached in-game by someone offering art commissions, and given that I didn't have many done of my characters and didn't have much money, I spoke with them a little bit about it. The price was decent and so I agreed to talk about it over discord messages. I got information from them, and provided references as well as what I was looking for, which also included the only commissioned art piece I had of the character in question. The payment was sent, but there was some issues over how it was to be sent to them. I originally used the payment option but was told to resend it as a friend after he refunded the prior payment. In the end, the payment issue was fixed and the agreed upon amount was received. There was a little more discussion on available times as well as an ETA on seeing the linework. Past that point, the next time I contacted them was a little over a week later, on April 5th, to check on the progress given what they had told me about their usual turn-around times. They messaged me a week later on the 13th that they were finished with the prior line work for a previous commission (the draenei in the screenshot) and that they were going to be starting on mine next. Three days later on the 16th I received a message saying that we needed to discuss pricing. I told them that we had already negotiated and agreed on the price, and that I had paid them in full and up front and that I wanted to see the line art to see if there were any changes I would like made. There were a few things that I had an issue with and voiced them, as well as restating that I would not be paying anything further since the agreed upon price for the digital color portrait had already been paid. They attempted to pass blame off on me for not working with them, despite during negotiations a few weeks prior on the 19th when I stated I would be more than happy to provide further assistance should they need more references or clarification from me. They continued to attempt to re-negotiate further payment on a transaction that was already concluded and payment rendered. When I declined, and told them that I would simply take the incomplete product, they agreed. After that, they messaged me that they would probably go ahead and finish the coloring of the art piece anyway or possibly use it as practice for shading and that I should keep an eye out for it. When I attempted to confront them on this, Discord's bot informed me my message could not be sent because I had been blocked/unfriended by them. I attempted to go to their Instagram page where they had posted the work and reply to their work. The post was rapidly deleted and my Instagram account blocked from viewing their page. As the payment was changed from a business transaction to a gift, I know I cannot be refunded. I wouldn't have minded being out the money for this commission, but when I was told that they were essentially going to finish the drawing anyway -after- I had told them I was done, I wanted to make others aware of this artist.
  24. I'm honestly surprised it took this long for her to earn a beware given that when I ordered my commission in 2014 she was also having issues with keeping her queue in check. While she has made excellent strides in dealing with it in the past, it doesn't seem to ever significantly get better. Unfortunately, I've unwatched her since she adopted a "no refunds" policy and defended it despite it being highly unethical.
  25. Googling their name comes up with these; https://www.redbubble.com/people/caninevomit https://steamcommunity.com/id/Caninevomit Goolging their name comes up with " transformice user Caninevomit" on a lot of art. I have no idea if thats a site, or a roleplay or what, but you can look in to it and see if theyre active there. This is googles cache of their trello saying they quit Amino -
  26. Explain; Prepaid for a YCH commission posted via her gallery. (YCH attached). She originally mentioned that she had a queue and it would be a wait, I had no problem with that. I paid for it right away as she needed the money for an electric bill she stated in the post. I sent in the info to her via note and she confirmed it as well ok. Stated it would be at LEAST a month before it was complete. Again, I was fine with that. I commented back on the same post for an update about a month and a half later, because I realized her trello never updated to show my commission on her to-do list. She replied promptly and gave me an update. December I noted again, right before Christmas, asking if there was any updates, as I had heard nothing from her but continued to see postings of art, YCH's for sale and journals. She stated she was almost done with a wip and apologized for the delay. That was the last I heard from her directly. I noted again in February, she read the note but never responded. Again I noted for an update at the end of March. This note has still sat unread. So currently I am still down $50 or the YCH paid for. Obviously it is too late for me to go through Paypal and dispute the charge for a refund, but I am hoping this helps others avoid what I am not dealing with, maybe it will end with me getting either the YCh I paid for or a refund.
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