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Seconding this. Their track record in regards to fursuit commissions and business ethics is dismal, so it's no surprise that also crosses over to their 2d art

Where did you find this maker? I can't find anything about them online except one empty FA profile (which says they are 17??) I hope you get your money and DTD back - but the price, the lack of previous customers who can vouch for the maker's previous suits and lack of an online presence or any kind of portfolio is a GIANT red flag. I also think it's quite suspicious that they claimed to have made two other suits (or 1.5, if you consider the personal one was only partially finished) and couldn't produce proof of that? I've never heard of a 'private' fursuit commission - I suppose they might exist but it's shady as that the only previous commission they'd done was a 'private' one 😕

Given that I've lived in a place with mildew issues, I absolutely am baffled that if this was this strong that the rest of your clients didn't say anything. I am also similarly mystified that cleaning it didn't get the smell out. For context the day we moved in the smell of mildew was so intense that I, someone without allergies, had a headache for weeks whenever I'd go home. Our items, including my clothing, reeked. I had to keep a set of my uniform at work just so it wouldn't smell while I was at work. Yet once we moved out the smell went away after a wash or two. A few months out everything that couldn't be washed has already let the smell go. This includes my fursuit parts. I'm sorry, they absolutely did not deserve a full refund.

Okay so I just forced a Paypal chargeback on her because she said she'd have an update for me, and a month later I had to find out on my own that she left. I commissioned her on facebook, so had no idea what her other social media accounts were, and had to track her down from her invoice. Only after I opened the claim did she actually respond to my message, but by then I wasn't going to let the claim go. I'm severely disappointed that she didn't let other clients know she was leaving, especially her fursuit clients.

Until something is done to protect people who pay for fursuits, this will always happen. There is too much power in the hands of the suit makers and this just opens the way up to scammers. Paying over 3000$ upfront for something and having a no-refund policy slammed in your face is disgusting. I get that this person didn't nessaserily have a no-refund policy, but you never really got a refund anyway. This is why from now on I'll be paying the whole amount at once through goods and services, and if progress isn't made within the PayPal deadline for a refund, I'll be making a claim. Been scammed way to often by fursuit makers, and something needs to be done. Cost of the materials up front, payment on completion. That's how it should be. I'm sorry you had so much trouble. Some Fursuit makers, new and old, seem to be getting way too greedy and taking way more orders than they can handle. Because fursuits take way to long to make after payment, PayPal will not cover the refund because "too much time has passed" this really has to be addressed somehow.

So, I asked for the care instructions and "how-to" put the suit on information (for my specific suit) from Lemonbrat 2 weeks ago, the email finally arrived last night. The care instructions seem pretty generic, maybe even copied and pasted from some website online I don't know, it says nothing specifically about short, minky fur. It's not really an issue. I've asked for the material colours and the source, I said for repair reasons, but... I may have had other ideas in mind like comissioning a new suit from someone else using the same colours. I felt if I told them that, they would not have told me. Anyway, the sent me what seems to me like a really confusing image of the colours. Now, I only remembering choosing two colours. Champaign and Tawny, possibly Minky Black for my details. Now I asked them to add information on which furs where used for which parts. There are 3 shades of black alone. (I originally thought two) In total there are 7 different colours of fur listed in there email. As this is my first fursuit, I'm not sure it is normal practice, but I thought it might be worth mentioning anyway. Either I am having a really hard time understanding basic information, or communication is an really big issue. I've been at my first convention and already the fur is starting to bald in places. This is not a good sign. The zipper is constantly jamming, even when you ensure to make sure the fur is not in the way when you zip up. They've put a plastic puller on a metal zip on both the head and the back. It seems like instead of seperating the fabric and the fur, they've simply turned the zip backwards somehow - it's really strange. The zipper and fabric seem to seperate on the inside, but not where it counts on the outside. I'll provide more pictures soon. They're is no possible way to put this suit on, or get out of it without help. If you really need to get out of suit quickly in a medical emergency, be prepared to get cut out of it if you don't have a handler because it can easily take an hour just to get in and out of suit. 30-40 minutes if you really try to hurry. (impossible if you are on your own) Again, not sure if this is normal, this is my first fullsuit, but I thought my experience might be worth mentioning. [Edit: Thought it might be worth mentioning that the Fursuit Team and Security at EuroFurence, were constantly saying things like "Oh, the zipper keeps jamming, this must be a Lemonbrat suit" Just thought that might be worth noting] Camaro.

Regarding fursuit care instructions, I can offer up a few things: Washing/Cleaning -Faux fur is safe to put in the wash, but I would turn the suit inside-out first. This will give you access to the digitigrade padding, which may allow you to remove it (If you do remove it, take notes/pictures of what you removed from where, and maybe also mark the pieces with a fabric marker so that you can put them back together in the right place). -Always wash your suit in cold water. -A delicate detergent is generally ideal, but your mileage may vary. (Sometimes, carpet cleaner is the only thing that works.) Some detergents, delicate or not, don't interact well with some furs. If you have concerns and have some of the fur available fur repairs, test it on a scrap piece before using it on your suit. -If you use a washing machine, use a delicate cycle. Also put your suit into a laundry bag to prevent it from getting caught on anything. Put your paws, hand and foot, into pillow cases to keep them from getting any weird stains onto anything else. -If you're hand-washing, your tub is your friend and you can use it for soaking. Drying -Fans are helpful. Very helpful. -Do not use heat for drying. It will melt the fur. -While a lot of folks will hang up their suits to dry, the weight of the damp fur can cause stretching at the shoulders. At Con Care -Dryer sheets are super useful for quickly drying out your head and paws. Scented ones can also help combat odors. -Disinfecting sprays (water and rubbing alcohol) are your friend and will help keep your suit fresh between wears. Keep the spray away from anything airbrushed or electronic on your suit. You may also need to keep it away from the eyes, depending on how they've been made. -If you haven't, invest in some UnderArmor and a balaclava to help keep moisture away from the suit whenever possible. -Take frequent breaks and put your health at a priority over anyone else's idea of magic. Travel -Have some kind of tote for travel. Some folks have things like footlockers. Others have plastic totes. I use a hard-shell suitcase. Hope that helps with some of the confusion around fursuit care. Sorry I can't help with any of the other issues!

I'm sorry but it was explained at the time that the first image was a reference for the suit (it was actually a fursuit reference comission) and disney image was a refrence for colour only. The other two were simply extra images. I explained that from the start. Anything I asked for (lemonbrat calls them last minute changes) were items I asked for back in December 2018 on the order form. The only change I requested was the eye colour, I asked them to fix the head and tail because they were wrong. That's all. It's really interesting that all the Lemonbrat staff are badmouthing me on twitter and signing up for new accounts on here to try and twist and defame me, and make me seem like I'm in the wrong. They've done nothing but twist the truth, and censor dates and times on the email grabs. They've been venomous to me, and there downright harrassing me on twitter now by making false allegations, and making me out to be a "nightmare customer" I am recieveing hate comments, (albeit in the minority) because no-one is actually buying your stories, but I am getting hate comments none the less. I shouldn't be getting bullied for posting an artists beware, I felt I had the right to post this, and I shouldn't be getting harrassed for it. And I'm sorry but Lemonbrat's cost of making the fursuit is included in the 3600$ price. That's how profits work. [edit] An in addition to the conflicting reference images, Lemonbrat promised to make a sketch of how they wanted the suit to look before manufacturing it, almost 10 months later, I still haven't gotten that sketch. They were supposed to use that and work with me with the design. It's hard to work with an artist when they leave a fullsuit construction to 30 days before deadline. And only start on the main parts 2 weeks after shipping was supposed to happen.

I have no horse in either of these races, but I've been following along and this is what I see: The reference images were bad. No doubt about that. Not only are the markings all over the place, but the image where shes on the hood of the car clearly has a lot larger muzzle and larger, curved ears than the more ref sheet design. If you didn't tell me that these are the same character then I wouldn't think they were. I might struggle to say they are the same species. If they were going more off the second image than the first, I can clearly see why they would use a more mousey base for the head. The ears and muzzle clearly make more sense. Honestly I would have paid for a professional fursuit ref rather than a normal character ref and some images. The less said about the lion king recolour, the better. I think there was a big lack of trust on camarofurry's part. From all the emails I have seen and read, little thought is given to compromise or actually working WITH the artist. I know you paid a lot of money, but when you commission another person for something, you need to work with them because, chances are, they know a lot better than you what they are doing. I think jumping to conclusions about the head and tail were big mistakes. The curved one is clearly more optimal for moving about in a real world environment. It might not be as true to the character as you want but, again, you need to make compromises and work with the artist. I've seen a lot of people say "Why didn't Lemonbrat cancel and refund if they couldn't do it?" but I think thats a bad attitude to have. I think Lemonbrat was confident that they could deliver what the customer asked for to start, so they agreed. By the time issues in production started cropping up the item was already 100% paid and they had spent work hours and materials on it. Lemonbrat has people and bills to pay. Its not easy to take a hit of $3600 PLUS cost of materials PLUS cost of paying the artists the hours of work wasted. By the time there were big problems, it was probably a better move financially to push ahead and try to deliver a good product. Now, the finished suit itself. There are clearly problems with it but I think its less an issue to do with poor quality work and more to do with the materials used. Lots of words have been typed about the seams and the way the tail is attached. I think we can all agree that such a big tail is going to put strain on that fabric. It needs a firm base to be attached to. It does look bad, I agree, and maybe something can be done to sort it, but I honestly think this was probably the best idea they had at the time. The fact it was being modeled by somebody shorter than the suit was designed for probably didn't help matters either. As the for the seams: They are always going to be here, regardless. The fur just isn't deep pile enough to hide them. I don't really see an issue with either them or the zipper. Its a costume, at the end of the day. Its gonna have seams and honestly I can understand why the zip is so prominent. I don't quite know what the commissioner was expecting zip wise. I don't think either side is blameless, but I think Lemonbrat was trying their best to work in a hard situation. There are always going to be difficult customers and you do your best to make them happy. I think there was a big issue of clashing ideas and both sides thought they knew better than the other. I understand why they won't give a refund for the reasons listed above, but I am glad to see they are trying to make fixes to the suit. I'm not sure what resolution would make camarofurry happy as she is clearly not getting her money back, but I hope she at least grows to like the suit once its in her hands despite the bad experience.

I will provide lemonbrat's email response here. Apologies for the length of this post in advance. I am sorry that I used profinaty in my response to them, but it was out of complete shock at the suit, not in anger. I was not wishing any harm upon them whatsoever. They'd only sent me images of the paws, tail and head. I had been polite and patient with them up until this point. And the new head they sent me a close up side-shot. So I really couldn't see it all that well and it looked great from what I could see of it. Here is there email, and my response. *** Lemonbrat Inc, I will respond to your points below. Your points will be in italic font. Dear Camaro, I’m sorry that you are dissatisfied with your fursuit. We have provided you with the same high-quality construction that we provide to all our customers. I really don't believe that as several people on twitter, telegram, discord and artist beware have pointed out, you're premades are a lot better quality, and you're quality has been rapidly deterioraing over the years. Previous customers of yours are coming to me with support, and tell me they'll never buy from you again, even at your stalls at conventions. We would appreciate if you would stop trying to read “in-between the lines” of our emails, as we only mean exactly what we are saying. You have jumped to a few conclusions based on speculations, which isn’t helpful for anyone and seems to be causing you more stress that is necessary. Any "suspcions" I've had, have been echoed by other people, I show them your emails and photos, and they come to the same conclusion without my influence. So I really don't know what to say here. Maybe you are right and the 200 people in my friend's discord are all wrong. Your suit has been made in a timely manner. According to our email record, we provided you fur samples on May 5th, and in the proceeding, days had a number of exchanges asking questions about the details of your order. Mid-May is thus when we began the construction process. It is from that point that the designer started to pattern and design components. She was slowed by having to discuss a number of details with you because the main reference material was not exact to what was ultimately selected. For example; the addition of black ear tips, paw pads, and claws, etc that are not shown on the main reference image. If construction began in Mid-May that's just even more embarrassing that the suit turned out so rushed looking, and you say later in your email the person emailing me, and the person working on my suit were two different people but above you said the 'maker' was slowed by discussing details with me? I gave you four reference images, and explained back in October/November when I first ordered the suit, in fact I think it was even on the ORDER FORM about the black tips on the ears, so that is complete bullshit. I sent you four references images. 3 of those images had black tips on the ears! You can't blame me for any delays of details that were stated on the order form and initial emails sent to you when the suit was ordered. Claiming that we “only started a month ago” is inaccurate. I understand that you don’t see our day-to-day workflow. By the time we are sending images of a carved head and sewn together components, there has been A LOT of patterning and development. We simply cannot show WIPS of every single second of production. It was your STAFF that LED me to believe the suit construction started only a month ago. So if you started sooner, then that's not my issue. It's a communication fault (which you already partly admitted to) by your trainee person on the email system. You seem to be confused that the person who answers the emails is the same who carves heads / does other design work. I'm not the one confused about this, above you stated they were the same person, that the maker was in communication with me? We would like to clarify that the designer and seamstress working on the costume have spent 4 years with this company and are certainly not inexperienced. The most “green” person on the team is the one who was initially answering your emails who has been on the team for more than a year at this point. If this is true, that's embarrassing. If my company made me rush a product so much it looked really bad that would crush my spirit, I feel really bad for your seamstress right now. Every time you have responded to our WIPS with displeasure, we have responded within a day or two, offered corrections, and then made those corrections in order to meet your specifications. We have re-carved a head, remade a tail, made adjustments to the bust, remade the ears - all to try to achieve your vision as it changed throughout the process. When you responded saying you did not like the zipper and tail installation we also, immediately responded and offered to make adjustments. You didn't make 'adjustments' in my view, you 'corrected' really horrible mistakes. How do you explain making a mouse head for anthroporphic cat? The head should have been done from scratch, your adjustments made the head look wierd around the nose and mouth. But I was happy with that, then I saw the huge seem on the back. My fursuit looks like it had an autopsy for god sake! On April 1st you told us you were, “having trouble finding someone to do the DCD [sic] with me would something like [provided measurements] be okay?”. We agreed to accept the measurements with the caveat that we cannot guarantee exact fit. This was explained to you on April 2nd, which you agreed to. Your DTD would have been draped as soon as it came in, we could have easily started when you hit your 75% payment mark in February if we had had it. However, having to work with measurements is a much trickier process that has to be specially done by our top designer. Also, you waffled several times on how you wanted the bust to be made, from “speedbump” at the beginning, to two breasts (see your July 2nd email), to wanting the speedbump again on July 19th which caused us to have to pull the bodysuit from production in order to comply with the requested adjustment. This is not true, I asked for a speedbump and your Email person/ designer whatever they are, you can't seem to decide, said they could do breasts too. I asked for some time to think the options over and asked for speed bumps, so this is completely false. I have said not once, not twice, but three times that breasts would be UNSUITABLE FOR A CONVENTION AREA but your designer kept trying to push them on me. SOME CONVENTIONS HAVE BANNED THEM OUTRIGHT. I explained to your maker that I would provide measurements and send the DTD the next week, as I had someone to help me, oddly enough you left that out of your point, even though it was sent only a couple days later. You initially told us you wanted the suit in July for an August due date. It is unfortunate that your suit has run a few days overdue, but it’s extremely hard to keep on-time with so many changes and adjustments. Again your maker set the deadline for Mid-July, I was happy to wait past EF, maybe until christmas, but your maker or email guy, whatever the hell you want to call him, set that date not me, a date that you keep implying that I set, that is not true!! I asked repeatedly between February and April if the deadline was okay, because I could wait longer, but needed to know in advance because I had to make extra arrangements and pay extra for flight allowance if my suit was going with me. I asked if possible, could the suit arrive before August 12, but if not then it would be fine. So don't put the blame of the deadline on me its something you guys agreed to, and I gave you many opportunities to extend and you refused. We feel you supplied a reference image that doesn’t match your mental image of the suit but have still held us to the standard of what is in your head. There’s a reason why commissioners (us included) ask for accurate reference images and any specific preferences up-front (as you could have done from day 1 in our quote form) in order to avoid a tremendous amount of edits and back-and-forths in the production process. Again, I put the [intricate] details on the order form, including the ear markings. You seem to have a serious issue with communication and keeping paperwork in order. We feel that we have worked very hard on your suit, we have complied with every edit you requested, and are still willing to make the zipper and tail adjustments if you so choose. You are ineligible for a refund. As per our policies, we do not offer refunds on custom items, and that has been the case in our TOS for 4+ years. Time, effort, and money were spent making it, and re-making it to your specifications. Being disappointed with it at this stage and demanding a refund after all this work is placing an unreasonable burden on us as we have worked hard to make a good faith effort to create your fursuit in accordance with your preferences. Would this be the same TOS you changed earlier this year? The same TOS that changed the 75% mark to 100% and changed your refund policy to "within reason, minus labor and materials to..." "No payments shall be refunded" It's not been the same for four years, and your own emails to me proove that. It's a blatant lie. I have the email that says, and I quote "You will be bound to our old terms, as your suit was paid off before the TOS changed" my suit was paid of in April, so that means your TOS changed in April 2019, and thus has NOT been the same for the last four years. [ note - was not in email but lemonbrat changed there TOS in 2017 from no refund, to the policy I saw in 2018, they then changed it back in April? 2019 ] Please let us know if you would like the zipper and tail adjustment. I am very angry by the attitude and accusations you have made here, I would advise you make the adjustments to the tail and zipper only if it will not damage the suit further. Because honestly there are a lot of people, who agree that this suit is just embarrassing to your company. It's gonna hurt your business more than it's going to hurt me. Once you have finished making mistakes, I would really appreciate my suit being shipped by FedEx International 5-day like you promised. Regards, Camaro Cougar

@Lemonbrat This is... Insane. If you were uncomfortable making the suit without a DTD, you should've cancelled the commission. Several things needed to be reworked because they were done incorrectly in the first place. The head was CLEARLY A MOUSE. This character is a cat. The first tail was way too thick for a cat. You have made tons of cat fursuits. None of their tails look like that first one you provided. The final product has atrocious sewing. Forget the wrinkles. Look at the seams. The tail attachment IS messed up. Those are the marks of someone who didn't know what they were doing and tried to over-correct when they should've just started over. I've made those same mistakes. You do make good suits. You make tons of feline suits even. This suit is nothing like those previous suits, and even if the customer isn't blameless, this suit is absolutely not worth what OP paid. Someone(s) on your team messed up, and you should have had some sort of oversight to prevent giving photos of this "finalized" suit. Even if the commissioner was a total [newbie], this fursuit should've never seen the light of day in this condition. I can't believe you're doubling down on it. It is absolutely nothing like the quality you usually offer.

Your positive experience does not negate Camaro's negative experience. If Lemonbrat thoguht the time line provided at the time of commission was too rushed, or that they would be unable to provide a quality product to camaro for any reason, then the onus is on lemonbrat to cancel the commission. Lemonbrat clearly did not think that at any time and proceeded with the fursuit, delivering something that, regardless of the customer service issues, is extremely below the quality normally output from lemonbrat. This caution/beware is well deserved, and I hope lemonbrat steps up and makes this right by camaro.