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It's short tipped fur, so all the wrinkles will show in it. IMO if OP didn't specifically ask for this fur, the builder should have avoided it or said something. Goodness.

I checked back to see here and wow. THey're literally telling people to deal with their awful business practices or never see their money again and if you don't like it TOUGH LUCK PAL. Can this behavior be reported to Fur Affinity by chance? This is pretty awful behavior that I think should be reported. If you want to protect your business, treat your customers better. Simple as that.

I'm still waiting for a $600 refund from him, he also completely ignores me, I commissioned for a head in 2018 and he told me he'd have it done in 4 months for a con I was to attend. Deadline came and went and I he gave me another deadline. After this happened a few times I asked for a refund. He told me I wouldn't get the deposit back...even though he hadn't even started it or bought any fur but I told him that was fine because I didn't wanna argue.

Had A run in with him unfortunately, was able to charge back my money since he just went silent and wouldn't communicate over DM in Fur Affinity, Wish I knew about him sooner or I would never have tried commissioning him, I have another one I will be posting because I do not see them in the beware forum yet that has defrauded me, haven't been able to get my art or money from a different artist, I will put something together on them soon enough, hopefully with out going nuclear after seeing other art being posted and what I paid for in 2018 was never delivered or completed....

Personally, I am of the mind that this should not have been refunded in full. An edit with the addition of the horns, yes. Possibly a partial refund at most, but not a full refund. The quality is not that far off from the other images so there is no problem with the grievance there. The difference in style is deceptive and makes one assume that the quality is different but it's the same. The artist clearly favors more semi-realistic and real stylized looks. The hair in the image has the strongest indication of the artist usual rendering, which would not have worked if applied to the rest of the body. And the slight wispy lining you see in the two examples would also not have worked if applied to the very specific stylization present in the OP's character. There is also rendering on the chest floof which you can see if you don't have a washed out or otherwise too-bright monitor. If anything, it seems the artist may have had some difficulty adapting to the very stylized and over-large eyed look of the OP's character. At worst the artist misjudged their ability to pull off the look when agreeing to take on the commission. As I stated before, the worst of this boils down to not sending the OP any WIP or making any indication that the commission in question would not have any form of WIP. But even with that in mind, receiving a full refund over such minor errors feels more like robbery at this point. A note for future reference, not just in this case specifically, but any other, if you're about to commission an artist you see something very specific in an artist's gallery you would like them to emulate in a commission of yours, point out that specific piece to them and express this. You know your refs, you know what to look for, all artists do not have the same 'short hand' for rendering textures and render types and will not always interpret it the way you may have imagined it in your head. Pointing out something explicit 'This character's look is really close to how I'd like mine to look' or 'the way you did this short fur on this would be perfect', at the start of the commission can bridge some of gaps of misinterpretation. (and yes WIP will always fix a lot of this but, pointing out stuff like this can still help)

Fytch decided to reply to my note late last night, claiming she is paying back the first person first and then moving down the line. But then she also posted on her Facebook that she was paying for a fur-suit head for 6 weeks...... and has not paid any of us back so far.

I only noticed this area because there was a visible 'line' in the fur that won't go away with brushing. I feel that there's not much more I can say about the issues with the suit, and I want to thank everyone so much, especially the AB team, and the community for there love, and support. It has been a hard few months for me, and I couldn't have made it without you. I will never forget your kindness. I have made a final statement regarding everything that happened, and if you want you can read that. It's a pretty long statement, about just over a page on word. I express my thanks and my final thoughts there and you can read that here if you wish. I'll be requesting a thread lock from the moderation team, but that decision will ultimately be up to them. I feel there's not much more that can be contributed to this issue, and again, I really want to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart for there love, support, and advice over these past couple of months. It really means a lot to me. Link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BHMnCcpFPrwHTP3nqUlnabLIfcK6ykmTbYh50fQ7GTI/edit?usp=sharing

Where is this patch (head, body, hands) and is it like that all the time? Even with high quality fur you can still see the backing if you part the fibers.

The suit is balding?! I have cheap fur that shed all the time but never have it turned bald. Can you post some pictures?

I've sent another complaint regarding my suit. The fur is starting to fall out. T_T

Gosh, the seams on the body suit are just so strangely placed.. Hm. At any rate, I came here to offer a suggestion about the tail problem. I have a tail of similar length and size on one of my personal suits and it's sewn directly into the suit. A tail of that size should cause no problem on the body suit and it shouldn't stretch the fur over time. It looks pretty light! You should also be able to wash it in a machine or tub while it's attached. For drying tho, I would suggest getting a fan not only just for the body suit but also a dedicated fan for just the tail as the tail will take much longer to dry than the bodysuit since the tail is stuffed. Otherwise there should be 0 issues here. So see what you can do about getting someone to sew it directly into the hole (or whatever the attachment thing they did is) where it goes into. You can keep the belt loops on the tail and use a belt to help keep the tail secure and transfer whatever weight it does have onto your own waist vs the bodysuit-- but you probably won't need to use a belt tbh. Just an extra measure you could take. I hope this helps and wasn't too confusing! If you have questions, feel free to reply and Ill try my best to help.

I have no horse in either of these races, but I've been following along and this is what I see: The reference images were bad. No doubt about that. Not only are the markings all over the place, but the image where shes on the hood of the car clearly has a lot larger muzzle and larger, curved ears than the more ref sheet design. If you didn't tell me that these are the same character then I wouldn't think they were. I might struggle to say they are the same species. If they were going more off the second image than the first, I can clearly see why they would use a more mousey base for the head. The ears and muzzle clearly make more sense. Honestly I would have paid for a professional fursuit ref rather than a normal character ref and some images. The less said about the lion king recolour, the better. I think there was a big lack of trust on camarofurry's part. From all the emails I have seen and read, little thought is given to compromise or actually working WITH the artist. I know you paid a lot of money, but when you commission another person for something, you need to work with them because, chances are, they know a lot better than you what they are doing. I think jumping to conclusions about the head and tail were big mistakes. The curved one is clearly more optimal for moving about in a real world environment. It might not be as true to the character as you want but, again, you need to make compromises and work with the artist. I've seen a lot of people say "Why didn't Lemonbrat cancel and refund if they couldn't do it?" but I think thats a bad attitude to have. I think Lemonbrat was confident that they could deliver what the customer asked for to start, so they agreed. By the time issues in production started cropping up the item was already 100% paid and they had spent work hours and materials on it. Lemonbrat has people and bills to pay. Its not easy to take a hit of $3600 PLUS cost of materials PLUS cost of paying the artists the hours of work wasted. By the time there were big problems, it was probably a better move financially to push ahead and try to deliver a good product. Now, the finished suit itself. There are clearly problems with it but I think its less an issue to do with poor quality work and more to do with the materials used. Lots of words have been typed about the seams and the way the tail is attached. I think we can all agree that such a big tail is going to put strain on that fabric. It needs a firm base to be attached to. It does look bad, I agree, and maybe something can be done to sort it, but I honestly think this was probably the best idea they had at the time. The fact it was being modeled by somebody shorter than the suit was designed for probably didn't help matters either. As the for the seams: They are always going to be here, regardless. The fur just isn't deep pile enough to hide them. I don't really see an issue with either them or the zipper. Its a costume, at the end of the day. Its gonna have seams and honestly I can understand why the zip is so prominent. I don't quite know what the commissioner was expecting zip wise. I don't think either side is blameless, but I think Lemonbrat was trying their best to work in a hard situation. There are always going to be difficult customers and you do your best to make them happy. I think there was a big issue of clashing ideas and both sides thought they knew better than the other. I understand why they won't give a refund for the reasons listed above, but I am glad to see they are trying to make fixes to the suit. I'm not sure what resolution would make camarofurry happy as she is clearly not getting her money back, but I hope she at least grows to like the suit once its in her hands despite the bad experience.

Naw, they really can't. That tiny chin? That's not a big cat trait, big cats have a pronounced chin. At least the flatness of the muzzle is more accurate, as is the nose, than the one Camaro got. The ears on the head also do not sit correctly for a cat on both this suit and Camaro's suit. If anything that suit says to mean the group doesn't know how to make big cat heads. And yes that's even counting cartoonish exaggeration. Fur of the type used should not have been offered to the client, that's on the Lemonbrat group, not on Camaro. Not to mention, it's clear whomever constructed with it was not familiar with the material. No work should have been done before a DTD was sent for a suit of this type. Once again, that's on the Lemonbrat group, not Camaro. None of this 'you can give us measurements but it won't be as good', there should have been a hard stop until the DTD was sent. This deadline should not have been agreed to the amount of time it took to pay off didn't give enough time to complete it. Camaro had nothing to do with how that head turned out, that all on the people that constructed it. Like I said for the lion above, there are key traits for big cats that are not present for either head. Their noses certainly aren't as pronounced like that and so separated from the muzzle. I still cannot believe you're doubling down on that tail. You made a hard S curved tail just because there was a few shots in the ref with a tiny curve in it. You know whomever did the construction went wrong on this one and you don't want to own up to it. The only thing that has not been proven or dis-proven clearly is the explicit issue with the chest. No one has provided the initial request form nor the emails related to it, to prove when or where changes were requested or made, so that's the only thing I cannot comment on. Your group has been doing this for a long time, these are all rookie mistakes that should not be happening to a group that's been around this long. And if the person doing the correspondence is not the same person that's doing the construction that needs to change.

(Sorry for the edit) They sent wips, yes, which the commissioner was unhappy with, with them trying to tell him that he should trust them on this and try to invalid his opinions on those changes. Short fur does not excuse the seams in the middle or the unclean one on the tail, nor the crooked nose and uneven ears and brows. If the maker wouldn't be able to get the suit ready, in their usual quality for a specific deadline that was stated in the very beginning, then they should decline the commission. And of course artists/makers have to adjust their prices, but! you cannot say you will not refund in any case. Never, it is illegal to do that. I feel like you are coming over very aggressively and I wonder why. The quality is the issue here, which is not discussable.

I will provide lemonbrat's email response here. Apologies for the length of this post in advance. I am sorry that I used profinaty in my response to them, but it was out of complete shock at the suit, not in anger. I was not wishing any harm upon them whatsoever. They'd only sent me images of the paws, tail and head. I had been polite and patient with them up until this point. And the new head they sent me a close up side-shot. So I really couldn't see it all that well and it looked great from what I could see of it. Here is there email, and my response. *** Lemonbrat Inc, I will respond to your points below. Your points will be in italic font. Dear Camaro, I’m sorry that you are dissatisfied with your fursuit. We have provided you with the same high-quality construction that we provide to all our customers. I really don't believe that as several people on twitter, telegram, discord and artist beware have pointed out, you're premades are a lot better quality, and you're quality has been rapidly deterioraing over the years. Previous customers of yours are coming to me with support, and tell me they'll never buy from you again, even at your stalls at conventions. We would appreciate if you would stop trying to read “in-between the lines” of our emails, as we only mean exactly what we are saying. You have jumped to a few conclusions based on speculations, which isn’t helpful for anyone and seems to be causing you more stress that is necessary. Any "suspcions" I've had, have been echoed by other people, I show them your emails and photos, and they come to the same conclusion without my influence. So I really don't know what to say here. Maybe you are right and the 200 people in my friend's discord are all wrong. Your suit has been made in a timely manner. According to our email record, we provided you fur samples on May 5th, and in the proceeding, days had a number of exchanges asking questions about the details of your order. Mid-May is thus when we began the construction process. It is from that point that the designer started to pattern and design components. She was slowed by having to discuss a number of details with you because the main reference material was not exact to what was ultimately selected. For example; the addition of black ear tips, paw pads, and claws, etc that are not shown on the main reference image. If construction began in Mid-May that's just even more embarrassing that the suit turned out so rushed looking, and you say later in your email the person emailing me, and the person working on my suit were two different people but above you said the 'maker' was slowed by discussing details with me? I gave you four reference images, and explained back in October/November when I first ordered the suit, in fact I think it was even on the ORDER FORM about the black tips on the ears, so that is complete bullshit. I sent you four references images. 3 of those images had black tips on the ears! You can't blame me for any delays of details that were stated on the order form and initial emails sent to you when the suit was ordered. Claiming that we “only started a month ago” is inaccurate. I understand that you don’t see our day-to-day workflow. By the time we are sending images of a carved head and sewn together components, there has been A LOT of patterning and development. We simply cannot show WIPS of every single second of production. It was your STAFF that LED me to believe the suit construction started only a month ago. So if you started sooner, then that's not my issue. It's a communication fault (which you already partly admitted to) by your trainee person on the email system. You seem to be confused that the person who answers the emails is the same who carves heads / does other design work. I'm not the one confused about this, above you stated they were the same person, that the maker was in communication with me? We would like to clarify that the designer and seamstress working on the costume have spent 4 years with this company and are certainly not inexperienced. The most “green” person on the team is the one who was initially answering your emails who has been on the team for more than a year at this point. If this is true, that's embarrassing. If my company made me rush a product so much it looked really bad that would crush my spirit, I feel really bad for your seamstress right now. Every time you have responded to our WIPS with displeasure, we have responded within a day or two, offered corrections, and then made those corrections in order to meet your specifications. We have re-carved a head, remade a tail, made adjustments to the bust, remade the ears - all to try to achieve your vision as it changed throughout the process. When you responded saying you did not like the zipper and tail installation we also, immediately responded and offered to make adjustments. You didn't make 'adjustments' in my view, you 'corrected' really horrible mistakes. How do you explain making a mouse head for anthroporphic cat? The head should have been done from scratch, your adjustments made the head look wierd around the nose and mouth. But I was happy with that, then I saw the huge seem on the back. My fursuit looks like it had an autopsy for god sake! On April 1st you told us you were, “having trouble finding someone to do the DCD [sic] with me would something like [provided measurements] be okay?”. We agreed to accept the measurements with the caveat that we cannot guarantee exact fit. This was explained to you on April 2nd, which you agreed to. Your DTD would have been draped as soon as it came in, we could have easily started when you hit your 75% payment mark in February if we had had it. However, having to work with measurements is a much trickier process that has to be specially done by our top designer. Also, you waffled several times on how you wanted the bust to be made, from “speedbump” at the beginning, to two breasts (see your July 2nd email), to wanting the speedbump again on July 19th which caused us to have to pull the bodysuit from production in order to comply with the requested adjustment. This is not true, I asked for a speedbump and your Email person/ designer whatever they are, you can't seem to decide, said they could do breasts too. I asked for some time to think the options over and asked for speed bumps, so this is completely false. I have said not once, not twice, but three times that breasts would be UNSUITABLE FOR A CONVENTION AREA but your designer kept trying to push them on me. SOME CONVENTIONS HAVE BANNED THEM OUTRIGHT. I explained to your maker that I would provide measurements and send the DTD the next week, as I had someone to help me, oddly enough you left that out of your point, even though it was sent only a couple days later. You initially told us you wanted the suit in July for an August due date. It is unfortunate that your suit has run a few days overdue, but it’s extremely hard to keep on-time with so many changes and adjustments. Again your maker set the deadline for Mid-July, I was happy to wait past EF, maybe until christmas, but your maker or email guy, whatever the hell you want to call him, set that date not me, a date that you keep implying that I set, that is not true!! I asked repeatedly between February and April if the deadline was okay, because I could wait longer, but needed to know in advance because I had to make extra arrangements and pay extra for flight allowance if my suit was going with me. I asked if possible, could the suit arrive before August 12, but if not then it would be fine. So don't put the blame of the deadline on me its something you guys agreed to, and I gave you many opportunities to extend and you refused. We feel you supplied a reference image that doesn’t match your mental image of the suit but have still held us to the standard of what is in your head. There’s a reason why commissioners (us included) ask for accurate reference images and any specific preferences up-front (as you could have done from day 1 in our quote form) in order to avoid a tremendous amount of edits and back-and-forths in the production process. Again, I put the [intricate] details on the order form, including the ear markings. You seem to have a serious issue with communication and keeping paperwork in order. We feel that we have worked very hard on your suit, we have complied with every edit you requested, and are still willing to make the zipper and tail adjustments if you so choose. You are ineligible for a refund. As per our policies, we do not offer refunds on custom items, and that has been the case in our TOS for 4+ years. Time, effort, and money were spent making it, and re-making it to your specifications. Being disappointed with it at this stage and demanding a refund after all this work is placing an unreasonable burden on us as we have worked hard to make a good faith effort to create your fursuit in accordance with your preferences. Would this be the same TOS you changed earlier this year? The same TOS that changed the 75% mark to 100% and changed your refund policy to "within reason, minus labor and materials to..." "No payments shall be refunded" It's not been the same for four years, and your own emails to me proove that. It's a blatant lie. I have the email that says, and I quote "You will be bound to our old terms, as your suit was paid off before the TOS changed" my suit was paid of in April, so that means your TOS changed in April 2019, and thus has NOT been the same for the last four years. [ note - was not in email but lemonbrat changed there TOS in 2017 from no refund, to the policy I saw in 2018, they then changed it back in April? 2019 ] Please let us know if you would like the zipper and tail adjustment. I am very angry by the attitude and accusations you have made here, I would advise you make the adjustments to the tail and zipper only if it will not damage the suit further. Because honestly there are a lot of people, who agree that this suit is just embarrassing to your company. It's gonna hurt your business more than it's going to hurt me. Once you have finished making mistakes, I would really appreciate my suit being shipped by FedEx International 5-day like you promised. Regards, Camaro Cougar

ITT: People defending awful work. Also, I thought this part of Lemonbrat's defense was pretty funny: Sorry, what? If this is what Lemonbrat considers an average sample of their suits, then I dread to think what they would consider a 'botched' suit. Because this is a budget suit AT BEST. Not worth 3.6k. The head looks nothing like a feline base and as 'professionals' Lemonbrat should have known that fur would not magically make the head into a feline's. This one spins me out a bit because it's so obvious.