armaina
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Everything posted by armaina
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Trixx took 4 months to fully pay the invoice, which none of you can start work on until it's fully paid and is CLEARLY stated on your auction, and complains about it taking so long. She doesn't get to complain about it taking 11 months, at most it's 7 months. I can't speak for your partner or what they went through but since you can't start the illustration until you have some idea of what the music is like, this means that, as far as I can tell by the dates, you didn't start the actual illustration until at least late December or January. That's a whole two months, or less, depending on when the actual start date was of the piece. So, why is she blaming you directly for the amount of time she's been waiting, when it was made clear your commission was based on the music you received, which would have to be started first. You've done a fully rendered piece exceptionally quickly, (especially considering you did the background twice, the second time more involved than the first) The other thing that gets me is her acting like you should some how know exactly what she wants just because she said Kingdom, Battfield and City, these three things are entirely different visual elements!! You were clearly willing to work with any errors you made to Trixx specification, but when she couldn't figure out what the problem was she chose to demean your quality instead. Trixx is also an artist herself, she should know well enough the value of providing visual reference (she even admitted her lack of providing one was on her) yet as far as I can see, made no effort to provide you any reference to make the changes you offered to make. You didn't demean how Trixx felt about the piece in any way, but she wants to walk away feeling like you slighted her. The only thing I can figure is because your turn around was so quick compared to the music she's gotten it in her head that you 'rushed', and it's warping her perception of the art in question. I hope, if nothing else, Trixx walks away from this learning how important it is to provide visual references for the thing you want especially if it's something that's that important to you. And for what it's worth, I can tell from how you handled this you're the kind of artist that is easy to work with if anything needs to be fixed or changed.
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the person in question used the name spacemuttt on most services http://web.archive.org/web/20181124015225/https://www.furaffinity.net/user/spacemuttt/ Their account is deactivated so all that's left is the archive from 2018, you can see they at one point advertised fursuits on FA They also had a Deviantart, Twitter, Weasyl, Ink Bunny, and Instagram under the same name, some of those accounts no longer exist. But Spacemuttt was the name they used for accounts, not space meme. And most of those accounts appear abandoned.
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While this has been approved on the barest technicality, I'm not exactly keen on this whole arrangement. First you start your commission without even having a completed ref sheet, then provide a whole ref sheet on the 16th. While the idea of the character is about the same you gave the impression to the artist there would be a new ref sheet early on. If I heard from a client that there was going to be a different ref sheet separate from the one I was provided, I would also wait to get the ref sheet mentioned before I worked any further. And then after all that, you change your character. Yes, you say that the artist could turn it down, and she very well should have, but and she did accept the change and you give no consideration or affordance to this character change at all whatsover. At worst the artist is at fault for over-promising and, as far as we can see, not contacting you between the last contact on 1-14, and now. But taking into consideration your own changes to the commission, the fact that's taken 4 months over the holidays really isn't that long of a wait. There are a lot of ways the artist could have done this better, yes, such as charging more for a full color piece (the price is far too little, and yes that's even considering your tip) and putting her foot down when you changed the character a second time, and sticking with the first sketch instead of re-drawing it entirely. But you would do well yourself to be much more consistent and make up your mind from the beginning regarding what you want and realize that if you change the commission subject, you will add more time to it's completion.
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I feel similarly, at most adjust the fingers to be a bit conical but otherwise I'd not have requested much more. The sticker pack was way under-priced per drawing, I wouldn't have felt it appropriate to raise a fight over something so minor on just one of them.
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This whole thing has been a mess and an absolutely frustrating read. You need to inform your clients when you've worked on something if they've not heard from you. I find it suspect that the piece is suddenly ~mysteriously being worked on~ after 4 months of silence just to guilt you into rescinding your refund request. (and as far as I can tell, no proof of such work was ever shown to the client) The only work done at all was after the commission was changed to stickers. As for the sticker work itself, I think the work is on par with the rest of the artist's work, I don't really get the impression it was rushed so much. As for the hugs sticker, I think it's less that it was rushed and more that the artist just wasn't skilled in foreshortening like that. But I think the fingers still could have been adjusted slightly to look more conical instead of rounded. None of the changes you requested were unreasonable, and I find it really odd that they were so reluctant to add any sort of boarder themselves and instead shame you for requesting such a border. Did they just expect you to use the stickers with the solid color background? That's not typical telegram sticker format and it's really just not great looking for that. Like geeze I'd just add the border for the client myself. You had been completely reasonable and polite the whole way through, this didn't have to turn out the way it did. Either refunding from the very beginning or just doing the minor adjustments on the stickers. There was nothing about your conduct that there was to be a 'beware' about, and the refund and public release of the stickers is incredibly petty. That's a 100+ deep queue, along with 2 fursuits and it's not even small things, a lot of those are ref sheets, full bodies, an 'art slave' commission which typically I find those are a lot of work. I also find a policy of only 75% refund when it's been less than 6 months, even if no work has been done at all, completely inappropriate when the queue is that bad. That's a policy you have for fursuits because of supply purchases, not for illustrations and waiting on something that already is going to have an absurd wait time. As if their conduct here wasn't bad enough, that queue alone would stop me from doing business with them. 😕
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Changed Resolved to Yes
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I know this has been sitting here for a while but I gotta comment You build friendships with artists like you would for literally anyone else, through simple interaction and building up more as you find you enjoy each other's company. First, comment on stuff more, for one. Comments are a low impact way of engaging with people and fielding how you two might interact. And I don't mean just compliments, I mean just talking. Everyone is different, how they want to be talked to and what they want to talk about will be different so keep that in mind. But BELIEVE me, artists absolutely notice the people that pop up and say things, especially now when people are more inclined to fave and repost and move on, comments leave such a huge impact and make one feel like they matter enough to be engaged with. This assumption that some people are 'snobbish' is a complete misconception. Many artists have a lot of anxiety or fears due to previous manipulation by others. Their popularity has brought people to them that have leeched off of them because of their popularity, and seeing something that looks like that again will make them cagey. They will often be more difficult to gain the trust of and that's not a failing of you, personally, and if you take it personally then you probably wouldn't be a good fit for each other, anyway. But also ask yourself, why do you want to be friends with an artist, specifically. Because their art is good is a pretty flimsy reason, and can lead to more disappointment than anything. You may find that some people you mesh the best with may not even draw the things you like the most. Above all else, being friends with creators means supporting them and their endeavors, because friendship goes beyond just a vector of similar interest. If you cannot support someone with something you may not be interested in then maybe being friends with that person isn't for you. I cannot tell you how soul crushing it is to have people you think are friends, drop you, because you wouldn't draw for them or because you wouldn't create the subject matter they wanted. (which is exactly what leads to so many artists being cagey and slow to trust.)
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Personally, I am of the mind that this should not have been refunded in full. An edit with the addition of the horns, yes. Possibly a partial refund at most, but not a full refund. The quality is not that far off from the other images so there is no problem with the grievance there. The difference in style is deceptive and makes one assume that the quality is different but it's the same. The artist clearly favors more semi-realistic and real stylized looks. The hair in the image has the strongest indication of the artist usual rendering, which would not have worked if applied to the rest of the body. And the slight wispy lining you see in the two examples would also not have worked if applied to the very specific stylization present in the OP's character. There is also rendering on the chest floof which you can see if you don't have a washed out or otherwise too-bright monitor. If anything, it seems the artist may have had some difficulty adapting to the very stylized and over-large eyed look of the OP's character. At worst the artist misjudged their ability to pull off the look when agreeing to take on the commission. As I stated before, the worst of this boils down to not sending the OP any WIP or making any indication that the commission in question would not have any form of WIP. But even with that in mind, receiving a full refund over such minor errors feels more like robbery at this point. A note for future reference, not just in this case specifically, but any other, if you're about to commission an artist you see something very specific in an artist's gallery you would like them to emulate in a commission of yours, point out that specific piece to them and express this. You know your refs, you know what to look for, all artists do not have the same 'short hand' for rendering textures and render types and will not always interpret it the way you may have imagined it in your head. Pointing out something explicit 'This character's look is really close to how I'd like mine to look' or 'the way you did this short fur on this would be perfect', at the start of the commission can bridge some of gaps of misinterpretation. (and yes WIP will always fix a lot of this but, pointing out stuff like this can still help)
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This is one of those cases where the problems could have been avoided entirely had a sketch phase been shown ahead of time, the price paid is about 35$ USD so I feel it would have been something worth ensuring there was at least one preview step before completion. (I'd probably have misinterpreted the ears as well, but that's what WIPs are for!!)
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Changed NSFW to Yes
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As a mod note: it's worth stating that the artist's turn around was excellent, so there is no problem we have with the actual product. The actual problem here in this case is the expectation of the client to pay paypal fees. No artist should ever expect a client to either cover paypal fees or pay via friends and family option, do not pay an artist using the 'friends and family' option, ever. Less of a mod note, and more of a personal criticism is the artist's response to a request for a small change, I find it completely inappropriate to respond to a client in this manner over a small request, especially of going to the point of accusing the client of something they didn't do. It's worth noting that according to the artist's own TOS, revisions are only honored if brought up in the sketch phase. Any artist is right to choose how they handle their revisions, but this means any error that pops up in the ink and color phase, both of which do not get previews, cannot be fixed. It's important to remember checking artist TOS on their revision policies, to get an idea ahead of time so that you don't commission an artist so you get an idea of how they do revisions before you run into stuff like this. (but seriously, it was just a minor fix for goodness sakes.)
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Good luck, let us know if that works out.
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I'm glad to see that this was fully refunded but it's clear to me that the artist still does not fully grasp what went wrong. If they're still reading I'm going to lay things down: 1. Do not promise your client a time frame you cannot achieve. Delays in your time frames should be the exception, not the rule. In addition to that, if you're giving other clients a week's turn around but have other overdue clients that have been around for months for the same amount of work, sit yourself down and focus on how to address that. They will notice, and you should notice too. 2. Apologize to your clients for the delays and acknowledge the delays. You've only apologized for certain behaviors which while good, you still never really acknowledged in any capacity 'I'm overdue and I apologize for that'. Acknowledging the delay sympathetically and neutrally goes a long way in client/artist relationships and creates an environment that says you respect their patronage. They chose to part their hard earned money to you, don't make them feel like they made a mistake. 3. Don't over-explain. You may feel the impulse to over-explain your situation with the assumption that it'll make people understand better but more often than not it has the opposite effect. It can make the client feel responsible for what's going on in your life which they shouldn't. Humbly admitting a failing and being honest but brief about the issue, is all you need to do. (example, simply stating you're sick vs stating you're sick while proceeding to explain every bit of problem in your life that came from being sick, the client doesn't need to know the details.) 4. Not having the money to pay back a client is not their fault. You cannot decide to not pay them back just because you don't have the money right then, you cannot yell at them for not having money when you want to pay them back. You have to make yourself a plan to pay them back and then follow through with it. And this is less a criticism and moreso advice: You don't have to respond immediately after the client does. If you're going to bed, they can wait till morning for you to reply. (but try to make sure it's not exceeded 72 hours since they contacted you) And please up your prices, you're worth more than what you charge and you'll find your queue much more manageable if you price yourself better. You can turn around from this, but it's on you to make these changes, and no, that does not mean you have to fix everything overnight, you just have to set yourself on the path to improvement. Running a business is a learning experience, mistakes happen but only you can fix them.
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This was an especially frustrating read. The OP was reasonable, flexible and gave ample opportunity to be worked with yet was continuously lambasted by the artist. No check in, no sketch approval, and acting like they being harassed because the OP checked in weeks after hearing nothing. I don't think a partial refund would have been out of the question had any of this been communicated to the OP at all. (also that's absolutely not what gaslighting is) Putting a lot of inappropriate responsibility on the client, there's a difference between providing an appropriate amount of context for the situation, and dumping every complication you have on the client to guilt them. To compound this all, the artist's information on their currant journal boasts a timeframe of: I have the distinct feeling the artist just refers to 'but my to-do list' if they don't meet the provided time frame (Which is really short and they shouldn't promise that kind of turn around just in general)
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Plans for the resources section and donations. (Poll inside)
armaina replied to James's topic in Site Questions
I do not care if they paid off for this site for years and funded all of our archiving efforts. If they stiffed a client or stiffed an artist they will get no love from me. Donations do not suddenly make a person not responsible for their business. -
We can mark it approved yes, just give us the heads up when the refund is completed and we'll do so. Very glad to know she made a point to contact you and resolve things, it's always good to hear when anyone is able to own up to the issue and address the problem considerately.
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Didn't think that you were defending lemonbrat at all, because it does look a little better than what Camaro got. Rather, I was pointing out consistent issues in shoddy work for Big Cat characters that clearly both used that mouse head as a base, I can tell they both used the same base and I didn't want them to come in and go 'but it's the same'. The rest of the post was in no way aimed at you, only Lemonbrat
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Naw, they really can't. That tiny chin? That's not a big cat trait, big cats have a pronounced chin. At least the flatness of the muzzle is more accurate, as is the nose, than the one Camaro got. The ears on the head also do not sit correctly for a cat on both this suit and Camaro's suit. If anything that suit says to mean the group doesn't know how to make big cat heads. And yes that's even counting cartoonish exaggeration. Fur of the type used should not have been offered to the client, that's on the Lemonbrat group, not on Camaro. Not to mention, it's clear whomever constructed with it was not familiar with the material. No work should have been done before a DTD was sent for a suit of this type. Once again, that's on the Lemonbrat group, not Camaro. None of this 'you can give us measurements but it won't be as good', there should have been a hard stop until the DTD was sent. This deadline should not have been agreed to the amount of time it took to pay off didn't give enough time to complete it. Camaro had nothing to do with how that head turned out, that all on the people that constructed it. Like I said for the lion above, there are key traits for big cats that are not present for either head. Their noses certainly aren't as pronounced like that and so separated from the muzzle. I still cannot believe you're doubling down on that tail. You made a hard S curved tail just because there was a few shots in the ref with a tiny curve in it. You know whomever did the construction went wrong on this one and you don't want to own up to it. The only thing that has not been proven or dis-proven clearly is the explicit issue with the chest. No one has provided the initial request form nor the emails related to it, to prove when or where changes were requested or made, so that's the only thing I cannot comment on. Your group has been doing this for a long time, these are all rookie mistakes that should not be happening to a group that's been around this long. And if the person doing the correspondence is not the same person that's doing the construction that needs to change.
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It's fine! all that stuff can be edited, it's already fixed 😄
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Caution: Voregence - unprofessional conduct
armaina commented on Rionquosue's record in Artist Cautions
This is the thing that needs to be emphasized, OP in comments continues to claim that the chat is what prompted his actions but that chat log didn't happen until after the threat of fling a dispute. (but before the actual dispute itself) In that situation I think any artist would feel need to vent in a private group briefly. There's simply no compassion on the OP's end as he disregards all emotional and physical stress and opts to push harder instead of reconcile at all. It's like I said before, even with the wait and debatable circumstances regarding the readability of the ref, (which is pretty much the only grounds as to why this was accepted in the first place) everything else is on the OP. -
Caution: Voregence - unprofessional conduct
armaina commented on Rionquosue's record in Artist Cautions
You've stated that you will be making some updates to your ref and that's a good thing, but please be certain to give any emphasis on your ref that you consider Must Have. If there is anything to your character you find you must have, no exceptions, make that clear on your ref. I understand your eagerness after the wait but filing a charge-back after only an hour's wait is completely unreasonable. I even find the act of sending an ultimatum after only 24 hours to be out of hand on your part. And you clearly don't understand now menstrual pain can be for some people, because if you did, you wouldn't have pulled the hammer after only an hour. For some people the pain can be as bad as kidney pain and will literally make a person bedridden, which the artist in question did give an example of it's severity. It's as good as being sick. You don't have to answer this, but consider for a moment, if she said she had been ill, would you have been this impatient? Would you have still expected a reply within an hour or would you have been more lenient? While I wouldn't go so far as to say your filing a charge-back is blackmail, it is underhanded. I can see why the artist made the journal in question, which does not name you in any way, and in submitting this you've outed yourself. It's not exactly professional to vent in a public journal about a client even unnamed, but I'm at least sympathetic to the artists' frustration due to your strong-arm tactics, and I can see the journal has since been removed. I can concede that the wait without contact isn't good, and that at the very least she should have noted that the were 3 spikes in the ref, but everything else after that? That's all on you. -
So, someone decided to respond to this by sending me an anonymous message on tumblr rather than replying here so I'm going to answer here because it makes no sense to answer it on tumblr I'll have to read through what the requirements is on that so I know what exact verbiage I'd need. My guess is it'd be something to the effect of making a guarantee you won't misuse privately obtained information but I'll need to make sure. Yeah I should have a section for policies regarding shipping in general. I rarely ever do but it would be good to have. Those details would be on the commission pages themselves, which I have not constructed yet. FYI for the time being, I provide all this information to the clients directly as part of the negotiation process before money even changes hands and I even notate that information in commission invoices for concrete reference for both myself and the client. I'm guessing this is in reference to the possibility of reused work. I'm likely going to be re-working that entirely as I genuinely don't really see myself doing that in the first place. Once again, details intended for the commission information pages themselves. Would be nice to have some clarification on this. (such as if the problem is formatting or the actual writing itself) TY for the rest of the heads up on the stuff I need to add.
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r5-BVKNXe85oqHX_DocBzSZpqjTJPINILGj8EpsXdfM/edit# I've been going through my TOS and would like if anyone could look this over and see if there may be anything I missed or if anything doesn't appear to be clear enough.
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Beware: Feyvaras/ AmberGroves/ PunkyPanda/ ZappBeast
armaina commented on MAWMATOMU's record in Artist Bewares
I emphatically disagree here. Considering they paid in April and heard absolutely nothing until they themselves until they themselves contacted the artist in June, and on top of the potential proposed deadline (despite the fact that the artist TOS claims they don't follow deadlines) The desire to ensure work is done both before the deadline, if at all, it makes sense to want to check in to ensure the deadline was met, which as we can all see, it very much did not. All things considered, and with how much the OP was yanked around, the OP hasn't really IM'd the artist all that much. I've seen harassment-level commission inquiries, this isn't it. -
Commissioner wants to edit image themselves to avoid extra fee
armaina replied to Fauwcks's topic in Advice for Artists
I admittedly wouldn't have charged for such a minor edit, however I probably would have asked further clarification questions before I actually made the edit itself. Hearing a request phrased as 'two triangles on the cheek' and nothing more would have made me follow up with 'what do you mean two triangles, do you have examples?' because that's too dang vague to work with and I value my time. And while I know it was a YCH do you ever show the edit sketch stage before you finish things up to your clients? I feel like this whole thing could have easily been avoided had WIP been shown sooner. I can only speculate of course, seeing as I have no idea what the type of finish was intended for the piece.
