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Everything posted by baja
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A comment was not approved under item 1 of our rules of participation. 1. Comments are to remain professional, constructive, and on topic. We are not a drama site. Please be mindful of your conduct moving forward, especially when attempting to contribute to older bewares.
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As a heads up. Looking up their aliases via twitter search shows that they have only changed their handle. the only one that seems to be purged is the pt/pz account. as nothing turns up when you search that handle. these were both found using kirakirakuiin.
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Advice Needed- Artist Posting But Not Answering Notes
baja replied to omegalul's topic in Advice for Commissioners
If you paid with Paypal through goods and services, you have a 180 day window from the day you paid. Within this window you have a fair bit of time to decide what the best option for you is. With that said, did their TOS mention anything about a turnaround time? Or what to expect for delivery of the project you requested from them? You are not a 'nightmare' customer for expecting your product, but if they are not communicating with you, it isn't easing your concerns about the project. You've said it yourself it's only been about two months since they made it known that they had some sort of personal matter that's impeded their workflow. I'm not going to judge them for putting out personal work, an artist is within their rights to do personal projects in between commissions, that isn't an immediate red flag. Give them a another week or so to sort themselves out. You, and only you will need to come to the decision of going for a chargeback if they refuse to refund you or produce the product in a timely manner. But these are options you should pursue after sending them an ultimatum with a hard deadline. -
Changed Resolved to Yes
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OP, your best bet at recouping the loss would be to just go through paypal for your refund at this point. Asking for a refund seems to be a fruitless endeavor because of how their communication just dropped off entirely. Inform them that you'll be going to Paypal for a refund and leave it at that. You're already dangerously close to the 180 day window to dispute this transaction, don't hesitate to get your money back.
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Once your matter is concluded, you may contact us directly to inform us as such. As you have opted to pursue litigation in this situation, we will be locking this post until further notice.
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Concerning the matter of the missing email, Pisq was in contact with staff to discuss the missing proof from their end. We have concluded that it was likely this message never made it to Mossling due to the fallibility of technology; its not unheard of for emails to just be eaten and never make it to the intended recipient. Staff tested sending an email between the two respective mail providers, a clean Gmail Account and a clean Outlook account were utilized, and what we saw is that Outlook promptly put the test email from our Gmail sender into Junk without notifying us. Given the circumstances that arose here, we were lead to believe that the email may have gone to junk and was automatically deleted by Outlook without Mossling ever knowing about it. Furthermore, Pisq has acknowledged that the breakdown in communications was an issue that is as much their fault as it is Mossling's. Mossling has made it clear that they made missteps in this situation, but the client also admits that they took multiple steps to bar contact without informing the artist. This is not a situation without blame from both sides, and we ask that further commentary remain constructive and abstains from antagonizing either party.
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Changed Where to https://twitter.com/BlueFoxFursuits https://twitter.com/daskerlizard https://www.bf-fursuits.com/ https://twitter.com/daskdoodles https://www.camodile.co.uk/ https://t.me/camodileupdate Changed NSFW to No Changed Resolved to No
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A comment was not approved under Section 1 of our Rules of Participation. 1. Comments are to remain professional, constructive, and on topic.
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I would like to preface that I am speaking as both a commissioner and an artist who used to work freelance; you need to stop speaking to this person, or any artist, under the pretense of "being friends." We cannot know for sure if this sentiment is reciprocated, especially since the artist is ESL and maybe your mannerisms have not come across clearly. But you have approached this communication indirectly at every turn with this artist, you need to be clear and direct when speaking with someone regarding your owed work. You stated it in your post that you do not expect anything from this artist, so while you are within your rights as a customer to reach out and try to find a resolution, your stance on this situation has been unclear. You're within your rights to be upset, but you also stated that you're letting it go? It sends mixed messages. For future correspondence with any artist you commission, consider less *hugs and pets* and prioritize 'Hey there, I'd like to ask about the status of my commission' whenever you find yourself in a position where a wait is longer than anticipated. Informality with strangers can be uncomfortable to respond to; multiply that when you're someone who's native language is not your own. And lastly? Never ever pay through friends and family. This is a hard lesson learned.
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This is not meant to discredit either party, but I am mildly curious if any of the correspondence may have been sent to spam by the mail services' filters? I don't believe spam-flagged messages would show up in your search through the inboxes as you have demonstrated here.
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While this is an unusual set of circumstances, we do have the post made by the commissioner linked at the very top of this submission (and vice-versa) to get the full scope of this matter. We recommend reading both to get the overall experience of this situation.
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A comment was not approved under item 9 of our Rules of Participation. 9. Moderators will not approve an alternate alias unless it's 100% confirmed. No: "similar styles". No: "types the same". Yes: Same email address. Yes: Same art. Yes: Same characters. Yes: Same full name. We will require hard proof of any new account link rather than going off questionable variables. We are not a place to speculate where someone is hiding, and will only deal with what is factual that can be backed with evidence.
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Unfortunately, this is not the case. This commission was initiated in 2020, the OP is outside the protection window at this point. Note: Artist has updated their twitter handle from azha_pt to azha_pz since this post went live; tags and alias have been updated to reflect this.
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To address concerns like this, the best action to take is to call Paypal directly and speak to a live representative. It is always in your best interests to be proactive and speak with them directly versus going through the automated systems.
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While it is not uncommon to see many creatives taking payment upon completion, this is definitely an experience where you should consider changing your policies to avoid a client ghosting you for payment. Maybe offer a brief preview and secure payment upon approval and go from there. However, your TOS does not state anywhere that you are expecting clients to pay via the Friends and Family feature, which is incredibly deceptive and suspicious to an experienced commissioner. This is an incredibly poor practice that goes against Paypal's TOS which can get you in trouble for misuse. If you're not keen on the fees, you should up your rate for custom works accordingly and factor those costs into your prices. Skirting Paypal terms to save a couple of bucks is not worth the risk losing your account. Do not explicitly charge for these fees, it's the cost of using this or any other payment facilitator, just factor the fees into your pricing and you should be good moving forward.
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Even with your clarifications here, it does not paint Kino in a positive light as an outside party reading this situation. You have good intentions, but Ruchu exhausted all their options and Kino dropped the ball with them time and time again. The timing of your involvement does not make this look like a change for the better, and I've been in your shoes with wanting to help a friend who's gotten in over their head. We hinder more than we're helping because the artist isn't making these statements themselves. It just comes off like they're skirting responsibility with you stepping in and laying out the information on their behalf. It may not be what you've intended here, but it's definitely how this appears.
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Speaking strictly as a community member, this is not the first time I have seen a stand being taken by a well-meaning, unrelated party. While you have good intentions here, it is not heartening that it has taken a third party to reach any sort of potential resolution for this Artist's clients. For the most part, anyone can understand that Life Happens, but it should not have to take a friend to try and find a solution for their friend's missteps as a commission artist. It does not inspire confidence that you are being utilized as a proxy in this situation not only for Ruchu, but for the rest of Kino's backlog. It should not fall to you to resolve this on the behalf of your friend, full stop. Kino should be the one taking the initiative here.
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A comment was not posted under rule 2 of our guidelines: No Bewares in Comments. We will not approve any attempts to do so, be it with a full posting or off-site linking to a personal post. Please consider making your own post on our site if you have had issues with this same individual; it greatly helps boost our tags and metrics to have multiple entries.
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Under normal circumstances we would not allow blacklists as a part of a beware, however, we have been informed that our OP is a Minor and the releasing of their legal name by the Artist is an attempt at Doxxing which is completely unacceptable and puts this client at risk for harassment.
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A comment was not posted to prevent misinformation; i.e. Legalities on the TOS of Paypal. We are a site with decades of experience in posting and moderating business transactions, and we are well aware of what is and what is not acceptable via their Terms of Service, even as it has evolved over the years. We are not here to discuss legal implications of someone's Terms of Service, be they the payment facilitator or the individual using their services. It was plain and clear through the Artist's ToS that they were charging for the Paypal Fees in their Commission Terms, there is nothing ambiguous about how this, coupled with a 'No Refunds' clause is meant to be interpreted. It is explicitly a fee being charged to the client for the use of this service, and this service only. The costs were not factored into their commission costs, as is acceptable by Paypal's ToS
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Changed Resolved to Yes
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If you didn't also make a note of it within your call, you should make it very clear that the vendor was making you wait for your product beyond your 180 day protection window. On top of the paypal fees being an issue, it's massively wrong for you to expect your product so far beyond their parameters with their platform.
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Buyer protection is 180 days now. 90 days was from a long, long time ago. While you are out of their protection window, if things don't pan out, you can try to call them directly or go through your banking entity (depending on how you paid for this transaction). The automated system is just that, automated, so things can fall through the cracks even with open cases. You have better luck speaking to a representative directly over the phone most of the time.
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My question to you is, have you closed your dispute with Paypal or were you unable to raise a claim on this commission at all? The promise of a refund without an explicit timeframe after the way this transaction ended up is concerning. And if you at any point managed to open the dispute and closed it after being contacted by the plush maker, you've lost your last guarantee for a refund through paypal.
