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I paid Gideon Hoss nearly $60 to draw my character at anthrocon 2014. I was unable to retrieve it at the time. I have sent him numerous emails over the years asking about it. Ive seen him at other anthrocons and he still didn't have it on him, but he did finish it.

sergallysergal (sergallysergal) @ 2018-10-25 20:53 Just A Little Mixed Up WHO: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/just-a-little-mixed-up/ WHERE: Discord and Telegram WHAT: Eight flat pinups. WHEN: February 2018 to October 2018 EXPLAIN: Asked to buy 8 pieces in a discord we both shared. Was given an invoice, and gave her payments to the invoice(1) for the images she completed as she did them. First went pretty quick, the next one took a month, and the latest was not received until August. Between the second and third, she claimed she needed to get money together to move, and my response to that was to finish paying off the invoice completely. I also attempted to try to make the investment easier to handle by suggesting we switched out things, which is why I talked about getting a ref sheet instead of the last four pinups in the log. At the time I wanted to at least get something for the money I put down, and asking for a refund was the last resort. After that I waited a month assuming it would take that long, without response, until the artist asked for email communications in reply to an inquiry on telegram that I had sent her(2), which threw me off since we had been working through telegram for the majority of the work. I inquired about it, but complied and resent her the material she needed for the work to be done. ( Read more... ) Another month later (and three days ago) I tried getting in contact with her again, with no response.(3) After asking a mutual friend I learned that she's been refusing contact under claim that she will only respond to email. I was frankly, tired of my investment going nowhere so I sent an email asking for a refund for the 5 pieces that were never started. As of this post I have yet to receive any compensation, not even a reply.(4) Under the artist's ToS, linked here, the artist is responsible for keeping open communications to the best of her ability. This has unfortunately been broken seeing as she's still working on commissions while ignoring my inquiries, and with no faith that I will ever get a refund, I am washing my hands of this. PROOF: (1) https://www.dropbox.com/s/draztmtjxc9bslc/invoice.PNG (2) https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8xl0judwcz4fbj/log1.PNG and https://www.dropbox.com/s/ayvni8aecpsw6tg/log3.PNG (3) https://www.dropbox.com/s/qc05x9n8ox74kq2/log2.PNG (4) https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccupob7bh138nhw/photo_2018-10-24_05-22-09.jpg </lj-cut>

In April 2020 i won one part of a collaboration commission between Theodrekr and Tierhund. The original description can be found here : I requested updates via e-mail and sent the needed details in the note below. No updates were provided by e-mail so so everything still happened via notes or journals. I also paid for the commission on paypal: Due to medical and live circumstances commissions got delayed more than once. with updates to what commissions are up next in journals like this one: after some more time the collab was sent to his partner: Journal update 4 (note: my collab commission is not even mentioned here) After almost a year of wait and still no concrete progress information i started asking for updates in different places. Shout on Theodrekr's page: A note to Theodrekr asking for an update back in august 2021 mainly because it made replying easy for him without having to search an old note. Shortly after that i also sent a note to Tierhund ( since he is the collab partner) for an update on it: which got a reply later: I also put up a comment on the original commission listing: And got two Notes from Theodrekr regarding the state of the commission: ____ To summarize that: Partner lost the file. and they had to figure out how to solve that. After that exchange there was another update via journal which contained no further information on the state of the commission: Since more time without an update passed i decided to write another note to Theodrekr asking for an update and a solution for how he intends to get the commission done with following content: which is still unread as of writing this. the last thing i did to try and resolve this issue is to contact Tierhund asking for an update: as well as provided another note for an easy reply: Please keep in mind that the first reply from Tierhund took months and only came in after Theodrekr spoke with him so i don't expect to get an answer on that one anytime soon.

On or around 16 March, 2018, I purchased a YCH for 20$ from the artist. I can't give an exact date as they seemed to have deleted everything relevant from their scraps and gallery (which I will get into later.) I sent them a not on the 16 March explaining that I don't have a ref sheet, just other commissions I've gotten and screenshots from Second Life and asked if that was okay, to which they replied with yes: I don't have a flat out notice of payment being sent either in note form or a paypal screenshot as I was using my partner at the time's paypal as I didn't have my own then, and we've since broken up, but I do have proof of them starting the art after I paid them, which they sent a WIP on 21 March (which now leads to an empty stash site) and asked about some colours: We talked a couple of times between them, mainly about when I was expecting my ref sheet to be done, which never did. A couple of weeks later on 29 March, I sent them a note asking about the art, as the WIP they had sent me appeared to be nearly done, they replied, and I conceded that maybe I was being a little impatient and decided I'd just let them work. I know, I can be a little impatient at times: A month later, on 29 April, I sent them another note asking for an update, to which I got no reply again: Then, between 13 June and 15 June we had a brief conversation about my ref sheet, which at that point I was still waiting on: On 20 July, I sent them a note asking for an update, as it had been a month and a half since the last update: To which I got a reply 10 days later on 30 July saying that it was nearly done: I didn't receive any art, and didn't note them again until 7 October, asking for an update: And got a reply 2 days later on 9 October, saying that were (presumably) out of town and would send it to me after 20 October, to which I agreed: I didn't hear from them for a while after that, so I messaged them on 29 October asking and gently reminding them that it's been seven months since I paid them: And got no reply. This is when they first went dark. I paid attention to their page for a bit and decided to note them again on 30 January, 2019, to which I got no reply: It was sometime around this time that I noticed his shout page had many shouts along the lines of "Where's my art?" and "Are you going to finish my art?" I didn't think to screenshot these, and they've since been deleted, which I'll address later. More than a year passed before I noticed in my submissions list that they started uploading art again, so I decided to note them on 25 June, 2020: And between the 26 June and 29 June we talked and they offered to either finish the old artwork, or to do a new one for me: They seemed partial to drawing new art, and to be honest with you I was really liking the sketch that they had sent me the first time, but at this point I just wanted to be done dealing with this artist. Full disclosure my replies at this time point were a couple days between, as that's when the pandemic in my area REALLY started to hit and everything was hectic, regardless, we agreed on a pose that I sent them (censored link) I sent them references, which they asked for (the artist I planned to do my ref sheet didn't pan out) and that was that: And at that point they went dark again. I noticed on their page that they had cleared out their shouts and seemed to be trying to start anew, so I was patient, until they started ignoring my notes. HOwever, I could see that they were actively favouriting art on FA and that they would occasionaly upload the occasional piece now and then, but didn't even open my notes, either of them that I sent: I left them a shout on 30 October, letting them know of my frustrations and asking them to at least read my notes: However that fell of deaf ears, as to this day, my notes are still unread, despite the fact that they even favourited something earlier this day before I typed this: (Obviously, BlueberryDragon is not affiliated with this artist, this screenshot is only provided as proof that the artist is still active, despite ignoring my notes) It seems like I'm simply out the money that I paid for the YCH, which some people may say that making a big deal out of a $20 YCH may be overkill, but that's not what's on trial here. I feel this artist has been very unprofessional and I have been more than patient waiting for them, and made every attempt I could to make things right and to contact them, but being flat out ignored is just rude and unprofessional. Oh well, you live and you learn.

I commissioned Fajnyziomal back in August for a number of different commissions for around $100 & have been getting nothing but excuses or very confusing responses from them. I'm not positive what the issue is, but every time I ask, they claim to be too busy to complete said commissions. Despite the fact their Discord status shows them playing "Dead by Daylight" almost every day for hours. I chose the "Pay as a friend" option on PayPal because I thought that's what we were... My money's not coming back , nor do I expect to receive any artwork from them. I'm just here to warn others about this artist.

During October of 2021, I had noticed that this artist was selling a couple of YCHs that I enjoyed the style for. I've commissioned them once in the past and had some issues with them in delivery time. While I wasn't going to commission them again, I decided to give them a second chance. This time however, it's gone more than 4 months with very little communication and other issues that I felt I had to make a post here as I tried to give them a lot of chances. On 10/28/21 I had seen that this artist had reduced the price of a YCH they were running from $175 "...TO $75 IF PURCHASED TODAY" on their twitter. So, I commented to claim it (Seen below (#1)). I followed their instructions and started a DM with them on twitter so that we may start the transaction process. (Seen below (#2)). After I sent the message, they had supplied their PayPal link which I was then informed they were wanting the payment through CashApp or Venmo, which I thought was very strange. I told them that I couldn't do either as I didn't have the accounts for them (Seen below (#3)). After a while, they told me it was okay to send, so I did. I sent them confirmation of the $75 they required sent over (seen below (#4)) and had then received nothing back until November when I sent them another message to check in with them. They told me that they had a family member pass, which I understood they needed some time to recover from (seen below (#5)). I figured that I'd give them some time to handle it before messaging again. That was on 11/5/21. I later (12/19/21) sent them a message as I had still heard nothing back and wanted to check in with them. However, I received no response and was ghosted for a while (seen below (6)). I don't usually worry about artists that take time as I feel they deserve the time to work. However, on 1/4/22 I had seen the exact YCH I had purchased being offered AGAIN on their page. Except this time the words "YCH" had been covered by a dog sticker (Seen below (7 & 8)). I immediately sent them a message to check in as I didn't want to come off accusatory, even though I felt I had been ripped off at this point. They sent me a message saying that "...I am so sorry. Would you like me to just make you a brand new hypno icon? Please let me know what I can do, I'm so sorry for the silence" (Seen below (6)). To give some context, the first ych I bought from them (the one I alluded to at the start) was that of a Hypno icon. I had gotten that one a little earlier in the year and really didn't want another one. I wanted what I paid for or my money back at this rate. I told them that I don't want a duplicate com and asked if the thing I paid for initially was no longer available (Seen below (9)). The artist rebuttled saying the icon was in their old style and never answered my question. It seemed that what I had bought was no longer available to me and so I asked if they could make something similar for me as I wanted what I bought initially. They told me that they could create something for me like what was sold out from under me (Seen below (10)). They told me that they could make me something worth the price and I verified the idea I wanted. Eventually they said it was all good and that they'd get back to me. I had made one minor change to my character and had sent it over as I figured I may as well update what I have one my character at this point (Seen below (11)). I later reached out on 1/8/22 as it seemed the artist was back to giving me silence. I sent them a message today (2/13/22) as I still have not heard nothing back about my commission (Seen below (12)). My next step is to ask for a refund of the $75 I had sent them as this is getting ridiculous.

For privacy concerns, I have censored my username on these images. Around October/November 2021, I had discovered Mayo1nomor1 while browsing for some artwork & had decided to message them on furAffinity first to ask if they were open for commissions. They said yes, and we agreed to move it to Discord afterwards. Unfortunately, I no longer have proof of this as I have since then deleted the PMs from fA, but I had asked the artist on furAffinity how long they generally took to finish artwork. They replied saying no more than 8 days. (This will be important later) I sent them my commission details for what I wanted—two flat-colored pin-ups of an OC of mine, of which I paid $100 in total. 1st pic was a thigh-up pin-up, and second pic was a bust-up pin-up. Commission details were sent on 11/09/2021, and on that same day I paid for the commission—the artist later got back to me hours later with WIP sketches of the first pin-up, of which we were discussing what to change on it and whatnot. The 1st pin-up was essentially finished on 11/10/2021, one day after I had paid for it—though it was finished, there were some slight coloring errors I noticed that I told them about on the same day the pin-up was sent and finished. One of said errors was fixed in a new version that was sent on 11/13/2021, however I had noticed the other error was still unfixed so I let them know about it and provided them with a custom edit I made to demonstrate what & how exactly it should be fixed. Nothing unusual here. This is where it begins... Admittedly, I may have acted a bit impatient here, but it had been 8 days since I commissioned the artist and I hadn't received an update back on what I wanted to be fixed. So I asked if they had gotten the chance to fix that coloring error on the 1st pic, and if they had also been able to start on the 2nd pic. 11/22/2021. Still nothing. The artist had been posting lots of new artwork pics and adoptables on their Twitter profile since the last time I messaged them (11/13/2021), so I asked once again about the commission. Reminded them about what they told me in regards to how long it'd take to finish a commission, and also asked if there were any hold-ups preventing them from continuing further. I finally got a reply back on 12/07/2021. Artist had finally fixed the coloring error I mentioned and apologized for the delay. They didn't answer my question about the "hold-ups", so I asked once again, to which they told me they had been struggling to get work going due to issues they were having with their laptop. Anyways, the 2nd pin-up was all that was left, so this is what I was currently waiting for at this moment. January had come by and I hadn't gotten back any more updates from the artist since 12/07/2021. As seen in the pic above, I messaged them on 1/12/2022 for more updates on the commission. Artist continues to post more artwork on their profile, so at the very least I was aware that they weren't inactive or anything. Sent them another message on 2/08/2022. At this point it had practically almost been 3 months since I paid them the money for the commission. Still no response. The pic above is the last message I sent to the artist, on 2/14/2022. Originally I had planned on waiting one more month before deciding to ask for a refund, but I dug through Twitter that day and found out that the artist seemingly had a history of ghosting their customers the same way I was being ghosted here. Having known that, I send a message to the artist stating that I no longer had any interest in the 2nd pin-up and wanted to request a refund for it. The artist still hadn't replied back hours later, so at this point I decided to dispute it with PayPal and escalate the issue over to them. Thankfully I won the case and got a refund for that 2nd undelivered pin-up. I have since then unfriended the artist on Discord and ceased communications with them. Although I got my refund, I still STRONGLY recommend you do not work with this person under any circumstances whatsoever. I would've been more than happy to continue supporting the artist via more commissions but I can't really justify that anymore, given how I had been treated here throughout the entire ordeal.

Before I begin, let me reinstate that I wish no ill will or harm towards DaskerLizard or their business. I am simply posting my experience about my time with Dasker so that others my avoid the negative experience that I have had. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I contacted Dasker/BlueFoxFursuits the morning of June 16th, 2016 via email asking if it was okay for me to order being 17 (turning 18 within the next few weeks) and what their payment plans looked like. I was responded to 4 days later with both my questions answered. Given the okay to order, I then submitted a application via their google docs quote form. I was responded to almost immediately with the approximate due date and how much my suit (which was/will be a partial) would cost. I responded back within a few minutes saying I would like to go ahead and reserve my spot within their queue. After a few hiccups, (me paying in the wrong currency), I finally had paid off my deposit and had a reserved slot for May 2017. I paid £190 ( $287.16 ). A few emails from me about what furs they will use for my suit were exchanged so I could order a bodysuit to match with no problems. I have since received my bodysuit from another maker. The real problems started when it finally reached the due date for my commission. I was struggling for with money due to unforeseen car problems, so I emailed them on the 15th of May, 2017 and asked for an update on when I would be up so I could prepare on when I needed to pay/how much to put aside. They replied telling me they had to "do a lot of shifting around in my queue due to confuzzled suits overrunning" and how they had injured their back moving fur supply boxes and that they will be "starting up the queue again towards the end of june when I'm back from confuzzled, and also back from visiting family for a late birthday meetup". I was both upset and relieved on how I would have time to save up further and put aside my money problems, but also a little sad considering they had taken more con crunch commissions and put them ahead of other preexisting commissions. The next time I contacted Dasker was 5 months (October 9th, 2017) past the given completion date of end of June 2017. I simply stated how I had not received an email from the regarding my commission and how the queue was looking/when I would be up. I was then informed unknowingly that I had been once more pushed back to February of 2018. At this point I was rather upset, so I did not reply. I emailed them ONCE MORE on July 21st, 2018 (another 5 months after the due date they had given me had past), asking what the wait time is looking like since my slot had been missed once more. They responded a week later on July 28th, 2018 saying they had moved and had eurofurence deadlines to focus on. Again, putting convention crunch commissions ahead of regular commissions. I was told that I would have my commission and "all older orders out by jan-feb next year". Again, moved another year back. I did not reply. After waiting so long, I then took it upon myself to contact Dasker one more time on January 8th, 2019. They replied saying that it "should be february". Seeing as it was the beginning of the month, I was VERY excited to finally get around to getting my suit. That is until as of late. On February 17th, I contacted Dasker after finding out that they had once more opened for more commissions. This has had me extremely worried that my commission from 2016 would be pushed back once more to make room for other, newer orders. I asked them if there was a problem with my character and asked that if they did not like the character given, that they would tell me and refund me my deposit instead of pushing me back over and over. They then confessed to me that I am not the only person who has been waiting since 2016 for their suit and that I should have my suit by March. I was upset by this information considering how I am 1) not the only one going through such an experience and 2) my slot had once again been pushed back. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ To reiterate, I am a very patient person. I from the above evidence, it is obvious I have only emailed one to two times a year asking for updates, often waiting months after the date I was told to contact them. To put it into perspective, I ordered when I was 17 years of age, I am now not too far off from turning 21. I have given Dasker the benefit of the doubt one too many times, and I can say that I am very unhappy and disappointed with my experience so far. I only paid the deposit needed to reserve my spot, but I have had the rest of the money needed within my Paypal for up to 2 years now. They do not email/contact commissioners when they come upon hard times, leaving one to basically chase them to get a vague answer on when your commission will be started. Dasker seems like a nice person, they not once seemed rude and often replied in a very professional manner. However, it seems their queue is VERY disorganized and unprofessional. At the moment of writing this, I still do not know what spot I am in their queue and do not recommend working with DaskerLizard/BlueFoxFursuits. I will update further when/if I receive what I have paid for or if anything else unfolds. If you see any inconsistencies within my writing, please let me know and I will fix them!

I commissioned two pieces from Tankdragon (Furaffinity) back in August of last year. He also goes by Commanderblackfire (Commiss.io) and dragonboy238 (Twitter). The pieces together totaled $130 dollars. I waited several months hoping for the pieces to be completed or at least worked on. The artist has gone dark and has not posted anything since December of last year on any of the accounts that I am aware of. They did not respond to my attempts to contact them via Twitter or Commiss.io. I am currently waiting for the Commiss.io staff to contact me back in regards of the refund due to the total noncompletion of the ordered projects. Below are my attempts to contact the artist via Commiss and Twitter, as well as proof of the projects and invoices from the Commiss.io site. Edit: 02.19.22

On Oct. 5, I saw the artist's post on twitter advertising that their commissions were open: I reached out to them over Twitter DMs to inquire and to work out the whole commission. You can see that I asked for the sketch with rough colour. Cross referencing with their website, it states that it would look in quality and size as this. Therefore I was expecting a full body piece. The artist sent the invoice that I paid for promptly. You can see in the twitter DMs above but I will reattach again to explain: I reached out a few months later to ask about the status of the commission. I had understood that it would take a while to complete and was in no rush but wanted some form of an update. I stated as well that I did not mind if it took longer to do, I simply wanted information on the commission and its status to know if the artist still intended on working on it at all. The artist finally sent an update. Here, the image sent is a knee-up. At this point, I understand that it should have been on me to confirm if it would have been full body but I (foolishly) assumed that it would be just like the examples on their website. A day after this update was sent, I received the image through email. While I did receive the image in the end, the quality of the piece was much worse than the ones advertised and was not a full body. This is what I received: This is a better view of the images that were advertised on the artist's website under "SKETCH", also at $35 with +$5 for the rough colour. There is clearly a huge style, cleanliness, and detail discrepancy between the commission I received and the ones advertised. Overall, I was incredibly disappointed with the end result and how both the quality and the type of commission did not match what was advertised and what I had paid for. I understood that the artist may have had to take longer on the piece (stated on their rules/ToS) but I wanted to reach out to get an update. I felt that I had waited a decent amount of time to warrant the messages (artist also states on their website that status updates are allowed to be asked for, just not daily) and I had complied and did not ask daily. I waited 2 months before contacting after the initial payment and then another week before sending the next message.

Hello all. So I ordered this commission back in February 16th of 2021. I have previously worked with this artist before and never had an issue with them so I decided to work with them again since I quite like the last piece I did. Anyways I successfully put in the request commission form from a Google from thing can't remember the exact thing and got a response back within a few days and she was quite excited to be working with me again. About a month later on March 19th I did receive a rough sketch so just the line arts. As for what I commission was in general I ordered a single character illustration with full shading and a background. When I got the sketch I was quite happy with it as it looked very cute. I did requested two things to be changed on it though. The first one was the body style. The character I used was a bit chubby and they drew her as a thin character even though I had her body style listed in the character info tab thing for the refs I sent. The second was just to make the boobs a bit bigger as they where pretty small for the character and just looked a bit weird to me. And following that she agreed to change those for me and have it fixed in a few days After the sketch was approved that is when things took a turn. On April 11th I asked for an update and got no response, I waited two months and asked on June 15th for an update and once again no response. Then I became a bit annoyed and sent another one on June 19th asking for an update as it has been three months since I received anything. Finally the next day June 20th I received a reply She mentioned to me she was having health problems and was worried this affected our business relationship with us working together for comms or however you put it. I mentioned to her that that is all fine and I hope she makes a good recovery and feels better soon. Next month July 8th 2021 I receive a message saying she will have an update by the weekend and I responded with how I was excited to see it. And this is the last I have ever heard of her. On August 9th I sent a hello message and was ignored and two in July but deleted those as I thought I was spamming. Finally I had enough I sent a message on August 29th detailing my annoyance and lack of response and how I was a bit stressed especially with how much money this was. I outlined I would like a refund but she could keep what is owed for the rough sketch. As of me waiting this it is September 16th and I have yet to hear a response. I am slowly getting done with commissioning people a this will be the fourth artist I have had to deal with that has run off with my money. I like to commission people and support others but it is really getting hard for me to do so as I'm just paranoid at this point so idk what to do. Anyways here is a bunch of images Paypal Invoice statement I paid on February 18th 2021 Message one: Discussing comm stuff, like pose the character I'm using and background junk Random stuff and Paypal being weird for me with the invoice Rough sketch received Lack of response 1 Response back and saying when I'll get an update Where we are at now But yes hopefully this all checks out. Still learning how to do these. But ea take care and have a great day, cheers! ^^

Explain: Won a YCH for $70 posted in their gallery. I had been contacted and paid for the YCH on April 25th, 2021. Originally, Alisher had told me they couldn't send an invoice, and instead, they had sent me a paypal.me link to send the money to. I had sent the money right after they'd given me their paypal.me link. Proof of Payment: They did in fact send me the sketch as promised, and I had told them everything looked perfect, and this is when communication completely halted. I try to give artists some time as I knew they had other commissions to work on as well, so I checked in about a month later to see if they were still working on mine. Since then, I've received no further messages on any updates on my commission. I spent every couple of months trying to reach out before asking for a partial, then a full refund, and still, nothing. I recently found out that they have a Twitter as well, and when I'd checked it, they were actively posting on it, and had been working on fanart the entire time I had been waiting for my commission to be finished. They still have yet to see my messages on Twitter, and are still posting as normal. I am currently still out of $70 dollars, as I cannot file a claim with Paypal due to how long it's been. All i wish for is a refund or an explanation of why they've ghosted me.

I became a patron on Patreon of D lo and shortly after asked (via patreon's messaging system) if they were accepting commissions. They replied that they were. I gave them a few details about the piece I wanted and they estimated $50 USD (which seemed extremely low to me) and did not ask for anything up front. We agreed to finalize the details via email. Note that although their gmail name is present, I have removed the header of the email chain which contained their email address to protect their privacy, as well as my own real name. on 1/25/22 I received this email: With the attached sketch image. I recognized it as being heavily based on a piece by ItchyEars from HentaiFoundry: And when I double checked I realized it had actually been traced. The email notably does not mention the original artist, though it does say, "Again since it’ll be 50 USD (via PayPal), I will use some references to help out--" It goes on to say "oh I’ll add a simple background if you’d like to? Maybe a darker scene like a graveyard or something else?" which I feel is Dlo168 suggesting that the graveyard background is their idea (it is not, it is present in the original piece that was traced). I obviously felt misled in that what I had asked for was an original piece, not a traced piece, and the original artist had not agreed to have their art used like this. I did end up emailing ItchyEars to ask their advice and they agreed that it was in poor taste. Dlo168 did not ask for any money up-front, and agreed to cancel the commission when asked. They were apologetic about misrepresenting the nature of the piece and agreed that they should have been upfront about its source. the following is the full email chain after they sent me the sketch:

I commissioned Fen for a Vtuber bust model with Live2D rigging and 4 "emotions." I was originally quoted for $350, but I tipped enough to make it $500 because they'd just raised their prices after my initial sketch and I was impressed. After I paid the $100 deposit, it took more than the one week promised to get a sketch back, but progress was coming along in a relatively timely manner. Fen was initially good at getting back to me on Discord with WIPs and letting me know they were working on my model. The turnaround from sketch to full-color was surprisingly quick, but I was extremely happy with how everything was looking. My commission was essentially ready for Live2D rigging by the end of May, so I figured the whole thing could be ready at some point later that summer. Unfortunately, that quick pace did not carry over to the rest of the commission. After that May 31st WIP, I didn't get a single update for nearly 5 months. I knew they took commissions on other types of art and streaming assets, so I didn't mind at first. Eventually though, things just didn't seem right. I'd check their Trello regularly to see if gears were turning in the commission queue, and while there'd be new sketched here and there, the Finished Rigs list went stagnant through this whole time. The next update I got from Fen was at the end of October. I was afraid to ask for updates through Discord because their status was always Do Not Disturb, but I decided it had been more than long enough and I sucked it up. About a week and a half after I sent my message, I got WIPs back of the expressions I asked for. I actually hadn't noticed that the expression designs hadn't been done yet, but I was still pleased to get an update and know that my commission was still on the table. After that, it was back to radio silence for a month. By then, it had been 6 months since I paid off my invoice and I was still in "Ready to Rig" status. Especially being a Twitch streamer trying to plan overlays et al to fit with the model, I was growing even more impatient. I consulted a few friends on the matter and decided to ask for an estimated completion date. I was told December 15th at the latest. That didn't happen. In the meantime, it was apparent that Fen was doing Live2D work, just on other "quick completion" commissions that seemed to pop up out of nowhere. What added insult to injury was that they were promoting these simpler rigs with very little wait while I was still actively waiting for what I paid off in June. Then, when December 15th rolled around, they tweeted out that they were finishing a rig in just 24 hours. The next day, they were showing off a brand new rig for their partner. I lost my patience and asked to just take their PSD/CSP file so I could get someone else to rig it. No response. What happened after was a sticky situation. On December 21st, Fen's cat suddenly got sick and they had to take him to the emergency vet. The bill was steep and they said they couldn't afford it, so they needed donations and emergency commissions to cover the necessary treatments. Between this and the holidays, I knew I was in no position to ask for a refund, full or partial, even if I was still out $500 with nothing to show on my end. I again offered to just take my file as it was and go, eating my extra cost, but still no reply. Around New Year's, while all this was going on, Fen suddenly announced on Twitter that they'd finished two standard rigs that had been in the queue behind me. If it wasn't already, the writing was on the wall that I was being ghosted, so I gave them an ultimatum. As much as I didn't want to be the villain, if I couldn't get at least a basic reply, I threatened to file a chargeback. Within hours that same day, I finally got the CSP file with a lengthy apology. I thanked them and that was the last contact we've had with each other. I've since been in contact with a different artist who does Live2D rigging and I commissioned them to finish the model. They've been able to work the the Clip Studio file just fine. While I'm still happy with the design Fen was able to make for me, but between the uneven progress, lack of communication, confusing management of the commission queue, broken promises, and uncertainty that I'd get what I paid for, I certainly won't be working with them again and I can't recommend them to another streamer in good faith.

Ultimately, what happened in this were severe breakdowns in communication and significantly longer gaps than expected and communicated. Particularly after the February update, I became even more uncomfortable and triggered (have since figured out why and added it to my mental model). And now, I recognize that the February update is what further had thoughts creeping in of the numerous horror stories of artists vanishing and absconding with money (after the ghosting earlier on) or rushing items below their standard of quality for the sake of completion, along with people not willing to speak up due to having anxiety over conflict or not having the spoons. This saga has taken more time, energy, and spoons than hundreds of other commissions combined. It's been an extreme outlier for my ND brain and bad for my health, though also in combination with various other factors IRL. This took so long to report, because I'll typically trust artists to do their thing and stay out of the way. Being able to commission artists is incredibly special to me, as I'd been following a few for a decade or more before being able to fathom commissioning; it also helps me to express things, as I have processing issues. I have a couple remaining around this time-frame with no concerns, as those have all been well-communicated. This one ended up severely festering in concerns due to the history of no replies, so it felt like there was little point in attempting more communication later on, despite being severely anxious. I mostly relied on Trello after February, as I'd not seen discord/twitter updates. I ended up leaving the discord as well due to a regular server cull after not seeing updates - still at around 50 severs between two accounts, so I don't read them all. This would've resulted in no longer being able to DM me (have DMs blocked by default but had opened on Mossling's server), though it's not something I'd thought of at the time; we also have previously established contacts on FA and twitter with email recorded via Google Forms/invoice. After seeing the Trello card progress with no WIPs for fix confirmation sent or indication of awaiting feedback, that further set things off deeper into the spiral with an even further loss in trust. Come January when I checked the card, it vanished from queue with no contact, resulting in the next FA note. While writing the beware, I found it in archives incomplete not awaiting feedback vs at least being marked on hold. That's what set things and confirmed all fears in my mind at the time and complete loss of trust. Regardless, accusations like that won't lead anywhere good, but deep in a spiral that I didn't recognize early enough to be able to pull out of, the logical brain wasn't there like a locomotive engineer not being on a train going max speed; it wasn't going to slow down, which led to absurdity. I think that this has gotten far too rambly, unfortunately, so I'll just move to the screenshots. === This just shows initial contact via FA and moving to Google forms. Early on in commissioning, I'd intentionally wanted to help out low follower count people (super awesome to have watched some grow from 100 to over 10K) but have now mostly stuck to those I'm familiar with vs seeking out new artists. The next four are just the Google form, where email is the preferred method of contact but went unused, and invoice. I should've just corrected this early on, as emails can't be edited. Also worth noting on the invoice is that PayPal doesn't allow for transaction fees to be charged; I found out about that later on, so I'll typically tip to counter it. From there, it moved to discord, where I'd previously sent mentoring opportunities. Maybe that's why it went there. Initial contact and a WIP that was deleted??, along with feedback. At this point, I was new and hadn't thought about saving WIPs, which also made it seem like no progress was made in the later image. (This was just my thought at the time; I don't know.) Shows where I wasn't comfortable with how things were progressing and the start of the text walls x.x : A WIP was sent after followups, not sure why it took as long as it did. At this point, I hadn't seen pings or updates in the server or on twitter and ultimately decided to leave in I'm told March during a cull. With this interaction, I'd also stopped following picarto. Note that I didn't communicate leaving the server or picarto; I was already in a bad space after this. This one just shows the Np!, as I ran out of space but wanted to show the full window for continuity. This was taken on January 12th. Note that this Np! message will have been edited later on... After this, there was nothing communicated. As noted before, I'd left Mossling's server, not thinking much of settings, which ended up resulting in needing to use email (original request), FA note, or twitter DM. I'll link the trello card to explain how things fell from there. I checked the trello once a week and saw it remain with only the two flags labels shown below, never awaiting feedback. I did stop checking at some point, as it seemed like an exercise in futility. In August, I'd checked again and noticed that lines and colors were done with no feedback or WIPs. This plunged things deeper into the spiral and set off a panic (not saying this makes logical sense, but it's what happened). The numbers thing is patterning after the text wall mentioning numbers. Here, the second paragraph was meant to be offering for Wyr to be pulled and background reused elsewhere (e.g. YCH), if the background were refunded, but this makes no actual sense to me reading it now. Going back to the trello card linked above, I checked again in January and noticed that the card was entirely missing without communication. I blew up at this point. Just proof of email copy, but same text as above: Search showing all emails containing mossling (and no email communication), including the email above: Both of FA notes remained unread as I was putting together the beware. It's at this point that I recalled that leaving the server and that it'd most likely mean not being able to DM, though we also had a shared server I could be pinged on, so I toggled settings and sent a final DM. After sending this, FA notes both showed read and a reply was received: This note refers to being blocked on multiple platforms, when discord was retoggling the server privacy setting. I don't know what other platforms are being referred to here that I supposedly blocked on. FA, email, and twitter have all been untouched. Still furious, I was unsympathetic with a shitty reply vs if it'd had been prior to the card being archived with no communication. "IRL's shit, will be back" would've been enough prior to the card vanishing with reasoning behind why it was archived, because at the point of archive, the note hadn't even been read. And then this is the final note: Going back to discord DM today, I see that it's been edited. And that's everything, I think.

In April of 2019 I purchased a $60 YCH from AbigailDS with a week or two turn around time expected as that what their listing promised. I got a fairly quick wip from them and was super excited to get my finished work. A month went by with no communication so I was unsure if what I saw was my final art so I messaged them and asked and was told the file was on another computer and they couldn't work on it, they'd work later. Another month, no contact from them, I inquire again. They say sorry again, they gotta add some background and effects and will send it. ANOTHER MONTH. I message again this time they say they were out of the country and will resolve my issue soon. I try to press for details, a deadline. They say they will try to get it to me in a few days. It's then I notice a lot of comments on their profile from others who are owed art and haven't gotten it yet (the only thing I don't have ss of before they deleted it). At this point I can't even get a paypal refund because it's beyond the time frame. I've come to realize I'm not going to get my finished art, I'm lucky I even have half way finished art. Some people have nothing right now. They are now deleting all comments on their profile of anyone complaining. They have deleted their journal postings saying sorry about owing art because people are complaining. They say they had a problem where they offered a lot of art and took a lot of money then had an art block. That everyone is refusing art and wants their money back but they don't have the money because they are helping a sick relative. Yet they are continuing to post up a new YCH and take new art. They've even posted new art. Yet I've waited since April for mine and there are others who've been waiting a three or more months still also. They tried to lecture me in their now deleted journal about me making up my mind if I wanted art or a refund which I can't lie really kinda irritated me. I wanted my art which I paid for. That's why I bought it. But as I kept getting false promises I just figured I'd have to start demanding a refund. But I did again, let them know in a message that I do want my art and if they can complete it I would really much rather just have that and be done with it. The images are my paypal payment & my personal messages. ramaloki is myself on FA which is why I did not block out that name in the images. I am ok with my name being shown.

I commissioned this artist for a chibi back in march, as well as a headshot in april, and never received either nor the promised refund, and my notes since then have been opened and read but ignored. here's the original chibi listing: as well as the headshot one: (both still standing as of this submission, albeit with comments off) and my comments under each: the notes confirming both, March 17th and April 28th, respectively: and the paypal transactions: (side note, the email appears to be her mate's, another artist, rather than her own, which doesn't help her case) I poked her june 25th, to no response: again 5 days later: and only after I saw just how long the trello queue was and directly requested a refund the 5th of july did I get a reply and promise of refund: I waited several months, until november 25th, to prod her again: and several more weeks to continued lack of communication or any amount of refund: all while constantly posting MORE ychs, commissions, and art, having turned off comments on submissions and the few journals that have not since been nuked, and not updating the trello list since september: my payoff for patiently waiting long past paypal's 3 month cutoff date was to lose any chance of getting my money back through a dispute: I know in the long-run it's not a huge amount of money, but it's money I could've spent actually receiving desired art, and it just leaves such a bad taste how this artist treats 'clients' 😞

Last year at the end of March, my friend and I decided to get a commission from xBlueAshesx. I commissioned her before and had some problems with her, however, I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt and give her a second chance. I commissioned a 2 character NSFW lined illustration. xBlueAshesx and I discussed the details on March 28th, 2019 and I paid on the same day. About a month went by before I asked her for an update. She claimed that my piece was on her queue for that week and I should expect an update soon, however, I never received one. I messaged her again on July 8th, 2019 and asked for another update, but she never responded despite reading the note. Finally, on July 30th, 2019, I asked for a refund. Her TOS states that the art can take up to 15 weeks to be completed, it had been 17 weeks before I asked for the refund. She finally responded to me and agreed to the refund. She's still very active on FA. She usually posts 1-2 times a week, however, I have a hard time getting her to respond to me. She only responds to me when I talk about doing a chargeback. Sorry for the length. This has been going on for a long time and I wanted to include as much as I could as proof of her poor communication skills and lack of professionalism. TLDR at the end. Payment: Agreeing to take the commission: My response and payment information. Beginning of email included as proof of payment: Confirmation that the payment was received: My first update request: My second update request a few months later. The note was read but she never responded. I can tell that the note was read because there would be a yellow envelope icon next to the note subject if it was unread (Legend included in the screenshot as proof. An example of an unread note will be included at the end of this beware): Here she's agreeing to the refund: I messaged her again about the refund after she posted a journal about having enough money to give refunds. The journal she posted about the refunds has been deleted. She never responded: I asked for an update on the refund earlier this year. Again, she never responded: At this point, I had gotten tired of not receiving a response so I tried to set a deadline for the refund. 7 months had gone by but I still hadn't received the refund nor an update. Her TOS state that the refund could take up to 6 months. She never responded: She finally responded when I talked about doing a chargeback. As previously stated, she didn't respond to any of my other notes: My response to that: She didn't respond again. So I messaged her again. She was active on both March 2nd and 3rd: She didn't respond until March 4th when I told her that I could see that she was reading my notes. Along with mentioning taking my money back: I sent her my email and amount. I can include that message if needed. She never sent the refund so I messaged her again. "Bruh" was not an appropriate answer to a commissioner who's been waiting for a refund for 8 months: I waited another month before messaging her again in hopes that she'd send the refund. I messaged her 2 days ago, but she hasn't bothered opening the message, despite being active and posting art to her gallery. You can see the yellow envelope, showing that she hasn't read it: Proof that she was active yesterday. She posted several things on the 21st: The part of her TOS that talks about refunds and TAT (turn around time): TLDR; Long story short, this has been going on for over a year. She's still very active, but refuses to give me my money back. Again, i'm sorry this is so long, but i'm so tired of this. I honestly don't thing i'll ever get a refund. I hope you're all safe during this crazy time! Thank you for reading. Let me know if I should add anything else or if there's anything I can do 😞

ST3LLARPUNK opened for sketch commissions August 5, 2021. I contacted the artist, but they didn't respond initially so I figured the sale was closed. One month later they replied back saying they didn't see my DM. That's fair, I didn't comment on the sales post so things happen. We went through the exchange of details and payment was sent. On September 16, 2021 I noticed the payment I sent was unclaimed. I messaged the artist about it, but didn't receive a response. In fact, I just never received a response from the artist again despite them being active on Twitter and accepting new commissions. Edit: 12.24.21 The case closed in my favor. The artist never responded to it.

This artist was recommended to me by a friend who had just approached them for a commission of their OC. I sent them a note on the 3rd of April and didn't hear anything until the 6th, which, of course, was no problem. People have lives outside of FA / Twitter / etc., so after contact began, we started working towards and approached an agreement on the same day. Payment was sent the next day, and as seen in the following image and the one above, totaled $110 USD, which was paid: After this, however, both me and my friend received no further updates. No sketches or any additional questions and/or updates. My friend was smart enough to approach them, and they did finally get their art after mentioning a refund to the artist. Myself, however, did nothing, which I know was dumb. I tried to send them a note to try and get a response over a week ago at the time of writing this: But have received nothing in response. Since I'm way past the 180-day refund/dispute window, and with no reply to this note as of yet, it looks like I'm up the creek with no paddle. I hate to write something like this out, but I'd also hate to see the same thing befall someone else. Please avoid this artist.

I first contacted the artist MushyOtter on 30 September 2020 via twitter DMs. I was directed to contact them on Telegram the following day. Details and terms were agreed upon for a $100 colored sketch of two characters. I sent my payment immediately. I subsequently communicated with the artist numerous times to confirm my progress through their queue, and they were fairly prompt in their responses. They sounded busy, and were actively posting art to their Twitter account, so I assumed that they were simply getting through their backlog. At one point, the artist indicated that they were busy with offline business, so I gave them some space, and I would check in once every few months. In both May and August, the artist indicated that they would be contacting me with some kind of progress "in the next couple of days," but this never materialized. One year after paying for this commission, on 2 October 2021, I contacted the artist and offered an ultimatum: by the end of the month, either complete the piece, or issue a full refund. On 31 October, the artist contacted me with a rough sketch. While this was not what I had specified, it was more than I had seen in a year, and presumed that since it had already been roughly sketched, and considering that the commission in question is just a colored sketch beyond that, the piece would be completed shortly. The artist has continued to post about commission openings on their Twitter account, and has been posting new art regularly nearly every month. At the time of this writing, it is 16 December. The last communication I received from the artist was 3 December, promising that they would send me an update upon arriving home. I must stress that the artist has been congenial and responsive, and as open as one could hope for. However, their most recent post on Twitter was a completed colored sketch other than mine, dated 15 December. Between the posting of that most recent image, and my exceedingly long wait time, my patience has simply run out. I must severely disrecommend this artist to all potential clients. This is the Paypal receipt from that transaction as it appears in my transaction history: And this is the log from our Telegram conversations: Three months in. I have checked periodically to this point, but the artist seems quite busy with offline business, so at this point I give them space. After being promised numerous times that my commission was just around the corner, I decide to firmly request the completion of this piece. The basic sketch finally arrives one year later. This is not exactly the fully completed piece I had described in my deadline to the artist, but by now I am simply glad to have anything at all.

Who: lrkcreations / NekkoMeneko When: November 25th, 2020 What: Plush commission ordered through Instagram of my character Baphomet Worth: 155$ Reason for Beware: Has gone a full year without giving me any wips, notifications, and keeps pushing back the turn around 'estimate' time of my order Proof of Purchase November 25th, 2020 I ordered a plushie on November 25th, 2020. This plush is a kuttari, something I have been interested in for a long time. I was excited to grab a slot for one of these as it's one of my favorite plush styles. We went through and discussed price, INCLUDING an estimated time frame. Which was late February. Everything got paid, except shipping, since that was in her tos. I also already knew she has a 1/3 deposit price, but was not aware that she considered the total price of my order as the full deposit. There was no confirmation that the $155 was going to be the deposit until after the transaction. February 6th, 2021 Throughout the time from November to February I received nothing. No hellos, check ins, notifications, nothing. During the time I had redrawn Baphs reference, changing only the art and not the design. So the design staid the same, there were no design changes. I decided to send a message back and notify them that there was a new, cleaner, reference sheet they could use since the old one was kinda ugly. It took them 10 days to respond to me, and after which I sent them the new reference. They messaged back 2 days later with a simple thank you. April 30th, 2021 I was kinda ancy and wanted to know a new time frame of when my order was going to be done. It was then she stated estimates were not set in stone. This was a shocker because all the plushies I have ordered from different artists all had due dates on when I would be receiving work in progress shots, and physical goods always have a turnaround time set. I thought I was going to get my plush in February since that was the original 'estimated' time. She also mentioned a list/queue, something that isn't public so I had no idea where I was in her queue, or if she even has a queue. I begrudgingly had to reply with a calm, great to hear, knowing I had to wait even longer for my order. September 25th, 2021 & Current I reached out again as a little nudge. To see if I could get things rolling, or even a wip. It takes them a good chunk of time to respond. Saying they have been late on their work, 'trying' to get caught up. There's nothing more I can say and just leave it at that. I decide to pop in a few weeks ago to see if I can get a glimpse of their 'queue', something that's apparently not public information for their clients. As of November 12th, 2021, I have received no reply. Radio silence. I decided to send a charge back dispute notice telling her she had until the 25th until I decided to take action and tell her about how this transaction was highly unprofessional. I have still yet to even hear back from her since November 12th / 21st. I do not plan to chase her around to her other accounts just to get a hold of her, she has shown me how unprofessional she is and it is not my responsibility to chase her around. They stopped being active on their instagram so I wanted to check and see if they were active on any of their other social medias they listed in their linktree on their profile. I began my little search their other social medias to see if they have been active anywhere else. I found they have been streaming on Twitch, as well as going under a new rebrand named, NekkoMeneko. Being incredibly active on Twitch, Twitter, and their Tictoc posting almost daily. As of now, I am waiting for the 25th to come around before I take action with Paypals buyer protection and file a dispute against her.

- Original agreement + Proof Casual conversation about the Salt Queen ideas. We started Feb 23rd. They ended up sketching her out extensively. - Proof of payment I asked for a paypal invoice, so that I could keep track of the transaction. They confirmed payment. I received the gif immediately and was extremely pleased with it. I used it on my commission website as well as my curious.cat. - Any relevant correspondence Spine Breaker was friends with my partner first. I met them through their work on my partner's persona, Salt King. Often described as Spine Breaker's muse, Salt King was a design they made based on my partner's likeness, rights to the character was always Spine Breakers. My partner has never claimed to own the design or want it. Salt King art was only used as discord profile pictures and steam profile pictures. Spine Breaker would send me random sketches or finished pieces of Salt King, and other finished works, but no Salt Queen progress. March 19th is the last I saw any related work of any kind on Salt Queen. I liked their art so much.. I wouldn't have spent 300$ on their work if I didn't like it. I'd always message them about their newest Salt King works that they would send my partner! - Refund Request Half a year of random conversations later, I asked for a refund on Sept 21st. I had started to doubt their desire to finish the commission long before this, but wanted to wait it out for as long as possible.. I was honestly so excited to see Salt Queen design finished by them. October 12th was our final correspondence. Below is a message they sent to my partner the same day as my refund request. My partner felt like he could do something about the situation and inquired on his own. Receiving this excuse below as the reason why they didn't work on my commission this year. The fact that Spine Breaker tried to say I didn't like their work still baffles me. This whole thing was an insult... A slap to the face. I said nothing and waited on the refund. Yes, I too am an artist, my income is 100% made from freelance artwork. But I commissioned THEM for the Salt Queen because of their amazing work! (Work I believe far surpasses my talents.) I didn't design Salt Queen myself because I wanted them to.. I'm still very confused by this logic... Or why this wasn't brought up to me long before we reached this point. I waited until November 1st for the 100$ refund, nothing was received, not even a message. With no communication at this point, things started to feel personal. I removed the artist from my socials November 1st. Below is the inflammatory message they sent my partner a day later on November 2nd. Absolutely none of this can be explained by me. I was always honest with the artist, always excited to see their work, and honestly felt lucky to be so closely associated with them through my partner. If they ever had any sort of ill feelings towards me, it was never brought up with me. And with 200$ spent, I wasn't really sure how to act around them. After sending the message above to my partner, they blocked him, making this a very odd personal attack. I was never refunded anything. And he lost a good friend in his attempt to mediate. Beware this artist. 6/27/2024 mod edit: MazumaCat has received a partial refund and considers the matter resolved.

I started supporting Kittbites on Patreon at their $85 per month tier, which includes a single character commission each month. Paid June 1 (Supporting May) Paid July 1 (Supporting June) Paid August 1 (Supporting July) Paid September 1 (Supporting August) The first two months went by without a problem, and I got two commissions. I asked for an edit to the pieces, but after that they stopped responding. Which especially became a problem as two more months of Patreon support went by. Meaning two months of artwork have not been delivered. I reached out to Kitt on their discord server (Unfortunately no screenshot, I lost access to their server). I reached out to their manager (Puck) via telegram, and was told Kitt wasn't answering. I reached out to Kitt directly, and got no response.

I do not condone any harassment against Orange-PEEL, nor do I wish any harm or ill will against them. Please do not contact them. Please know that I am not the only client of theirs that has experienced these issues. We both agreed on a total of $540 which was a maximum of 12 fully colored frames, and they included a free climax loop and free background. We also agreed to split up the payments into four different transactions. First payment was sent Jun 16 2020 and last payment was sent Jul 7 2020. I had paid up to $405. The last message I received was Aug 6 2020 until Feb 28 2021. Before that time, any attempt to contact them through Twitter, Email, and their Patreon went unanswered, despite Patreon being their only active platform making monthly updates. I became their Patreon for $1 a month just so maybe I could find out what was going on and as another means to contact them. I didn't learn much other than it sounded like they were busy with other animations, and occasional issues would come up. I only learned from someone else that they have been dealing with lots of personal issues that I will keep private. Orange-PEEL responded to my DMs on Patreon Feb 28 2021 giving an update on the commission and saying they were working on a more detailed message that I would receive soon. That was the last time I heard from them. I initially contacted Orange-PEEL Jun 10th 2020 on their Twitter. I was a bit skeptical because their account had been inactive for a year at this point, but to my surprise they replied within the hour. After sharing some references they went on to give me the final prices. I sent some more references and details while getting ready for the first payment. They followed up shortly after with an update on the commission. They gave another update and I paid the second half. After this a few messages about the details were exchanged before they stopped responding. I then decided to try and reach them outside of Twitter, and this is when I became a Patreon of theirs. I wasn't able to receive any refund from PayPal due to how much time had passed and sending the money as a close friend/family. I know, bad mistake. Progress was being made so quickly that I didn't think I had any reason to worry. They didn't respond to any comments or DMs on Patreon, even when I sent them minutes after an update. The only thing I would receive on their Patreon were rewards sent out through DMs, which felt like a slap in the face. Eventually they responded on Feb 28. I was happy to hear from them and was looking forward to finishing this up. Never received a more detailed message, just more reward DMs. At this point I want a full refund but I don't think that'll happen. I understand some of the things that Orange-PEEL is going through, but their lack of communication has been very upsetting especially with the amount of money involved. What irks me is how regular they are on Patreon but neglects me as their client (and others) who's spent top dollar. I believe they are overloaded with work and anxiety, but I don't think that's an excuse to treat a client this way. I hope they are doing well now, and wish for the best out of this situation. Thanks for your time!