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  • Caution: EylonFerrousa

    SukariDragon

    By SukariDragon

      • Who: @EylonFerrousa
      Where: @EylonFerrousa on Telegram
      https://www.furaffinity.net/user/eylonferrousa/
      https://twitter.com/KumaHontosha?lang=en
      @KumaHontosha on Telegram
      https://twitter.com/zeuzvalein?lang=en
      http://www.furaffinity.net/user/zeuzvalein/
      When: 04/01/2019
      What: Commission



    Eden
    Message added by Eden

    This has been moved to Client Cautions as no money has exchanged hands.

    Hi there~ This is my first post on here, so sorry if I don't do everything right ;0; Just had a pretty intense interaction with a buyer, so I'd like to warn anyone who may come into contact with him.

    I contacted EylonFerrousa on Telegram after he had made several posts in a few chats we shared looking for an artist to draw his dragon character. His budget was $40 and I was willing to work with that. I generally do commissions differently than most (this experience has made me change my methods, however); I usually try to complete the sketch before requiring payment, so after receiving a text description of the dragon he wanted drawn, I got to work and made a few sketches with minimal tweaking. Once I had gotten it to a point that I thought would be good enough to go forward with, I sent it to him but didn't receive any response for well over a week. I sent a quick "hey just checking in" message, and he informed me that some things had come up and he needed to cancel the commission. No biggie, life happens, and I totally understand ? I said as much, but mentioned that because I had spent quite a long time on that sketch, I would probably recycle the pose to fit one of my dragon characters that I had been meaning to draw (I would not be stealing his character, just using the pose and anatomy that I had spent around an hour perfecting on his dragon to make drawing mine go quicker) He was irked by this, saying that he'd rather I not reuse it, since he would be using the sketch. After I insisted that he did not own that sketch since he had not paid for it, he responded, saying that in his ToS (apparently commissioners have ToS's? I haven't heard of this) he claims that all art drawn for him belongs exclusively to him, whether he's paid for it or not. This alone is something you can't enforce, as artists own the art that they draw, especially art that hasn't been paid for, but prior to this, the idea of him having a ToS was never brought up, mentioned, or linked to. If he really did have such a ridiculous condition in his ToS, this should have been the first thing brought up. He then proceeded to go on a bit of a tirade, claiming that if I did anything to that piece, he would have full grounds to sue me, and he ensured me that I "didn't want a lawsuit on my hands." I responded, practically refuting everything he said, and I promptly blocked him. I have the entire chat screenshotted (good thing too, because he nuked the chat as soon as I replied to his lawsuit threats), but the only truly important parts are the end where things got heated, and I'll put my response in there as well just for a little closure. I'll include them below, but if any more info is requested, I'd be more than happy to provide it. I'll also put in the original message he had sent when looking for artists to draw his dragon, as well as the sketch of the dragon I completed as proof that I had done the work in the first place.

    Unfortunately, I seem to have missed the text he sent me after his long tirade about suing me; he made sure to mention that he had business to attend to with the CEO of Hasbro (an obvious scare tactic, and a poor one at that). 

    Photo1.thumb.jpg.567fc9c70d585980317791df3e111195.jpg1008270911_Photo2.thumb.jpg.8beb4b2db9ca85be685bc73eb6cc15f4.jpg433077361_Clap1.thumb.jpg.bb3dbe7449ecd1895d826c700e7dc078.jpg1784694452_Clap2.thumb.jpg.202bdec22986c3ecd8edd24823fed51f.jpg433465829_Clap3.thumb.jpg.45c9ccd0cb1c3c5d853514d927e0c10f.jpg37456549_ClapBack1.thumb.jpg.2fc1007ecb8713e6b87c40712f34dc38.jpg583731151_ClapBack2.thumb.jpg.4b5e5d5b9c222e405b6b094c1522a0f0.jpg

     

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    • Administrator
    Eden
    • Administrator

    The "client" / bewaree (cautionee?) in this instance is so ridiculously incorrect that it hurts.  No, they don't just get to toss out a magical "client ToS" and override your copyright.  Copyright is granted unto you upon creation, and unless you signed a contract stipulating what rights the client has then it all automatically defaults to you.  Filing a lawsuit has to be done in your county with your legal details, which they likely don't have.  On top of that, while they could file suit for just about anything this one would be thrown out because there was no signed contract.

    If they attempt to upload the sketch anywhere file a DMCA notice.  If they attempt to get the sketch finished by someone else or violate your Moral Right to it in any manner, please update us and we will upgrade this to a full beware.

    This is ridiculous.

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    SukariDragon

    Oof exactly I was so confused by all that they were saying I had to ask around in a bunch of chats I was in just to make sure I was correct; it was so ridiculous that I just needed to double check XD

    I'll definitely try to keep an eye out if that sketch ends up anywhere; I don't know his usernames for any other art websites so it's unlikely I'll find anything unfortunately, but I'm just happy it was only a sketch and not a full drawing. If anything further happens, I'll definitely post an update.

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    Xaila
    • Administrator

    This caution post is so painful to read. I feel for you and the time lost; but I also applaud you for basically calling the "client's" bluff regarding court and Hasbro and not letting them get away with shenanigans.

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    Sylar

    "breach of contract" you cant breach a contract that you never signed. in fact this person making you sketch work and not paying for it is closer to breaching a contract than you are.

    8
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    Rendrassa

    A congratulations are in order to this would be client for receiving a rare, preemptive FA block from me. Absolutely ludicrous and thank you for coming forward about this.

    5
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    Badger

    Glad to see that you know your rights! They could *try* to take you to court, but they would not be successful. For one, their TOS does not supersede copyright law. For two, you can't sue someone for breaching a contract they were never even told about.

    Technically, if you want to get into it, he still owes you for the sketch, since he was the one that cancelled, but it ain't worth the hassle. Hopefully you can find someone to resell it to, since it's a pretty generic "fluffly dragon" design.

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    cknsausage

    Ooh, definitely blocking that one. Just.. honestly what goes on in some people's heads? Even art that is paid for the artist retains copyright to except if they've explicitly signed that right away (for a sizeable sum, hopefully).

    Your art, he owns nothing - especially since he didn't even pay for it! Just laugh in his face and go on your merry way.

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    Bornes

    I know you said you changed your practices because of this person, but just in case, I'd advise you to watermark all your WIPs heavily, as tons of clients will do things like this with unwatermarked incomplete art.

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    KittehMei

    I want to applaud you for keeping your cool and calling their bluff on their obvious attempts to scare you, well done. You hold full copyrights to your work and they have no right to use it, regardless of whatever strange "client ToS" they try to throw at you.

    I agree with Bornes above, I'd definitely consider watermarking your WIPs when sending them to a client. I once had a similar situation to this and from then on I have used a WIP watermark that explicitly states that "artist retains rights" etc. etc. Safe to say for reasons like these I always mark everything I do and I highly recommend you to aswell ♥

    I've gone ahead and pre-emptively blocked this person on FA - definitely not someone I want to interact with.

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    SukariDragon
    11 hours ago, Bornes said:

    I know you said you changed your practices because of this person, but just in case, I'd advise you to watermark all your WIPs heavily, as tons of clients will do things like this with unwatermarked incomplete art.

    Oh yeah I'll definitely be watermarking all WIPs from now on; I was really naïve when I first started taking commissions, and I thought that if I was friendly to commissioners, they would be friendly back. It never occurred to me that I could be seriously taken advantage of; I've had a few somewhat rough experiences, but this one has definitely been the worst.

    If any of you guys don't watermark WIPs or don't charge at least partially upfront, you'll be taken advantage of; please learn from my mistakes, guys ^^;

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    PlagueMaiden

    Wow, it truly takes an evil mastermind to come up with that. : D

    No big deal though, just let them know that  your Messager's ToS states that anyone who ever messaged you agreed to donate a kidney and a firstborn child to you. 

    Even if they haven't taken proper care of their kidneys, it should at least cover the cost of the time you've wasted on them. 

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    Trunchbull

    Hasbro's CEO doesn't give a shit about furry drama lmfao. Don't know what this dude was thinking mentioning him. Regarding this, if you give me the date that he said he was talking with the CEO, I could verify with the CEO myself. but it is obviously BS. so it'd only verify the obvious lie.

    Sorry to see that this happened to you. No one deserves a bad customer.  ):

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    CoraidenTsurein

    Hello, LMy name is Coraiden, the friend of Eylon who's living with them and I wanted to confess that I am the one that said these things to you through my friend. Do not blame them for my actions. I thought it would have been just a fun joke to mess with my friend and I guess it did real harm. I am very, very sorry to you and my friend Eylon.

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    • Administrator
    Eden
    • Administrator
    9 minutes ago, CoraidenTsurein said:

    Hello, LMy name is Coraiden, the friend of Eylon who's living with them and I wanted to confess that I am the one that said these things to you through my friend. Do not blame them for my actions. I thought it would have been just a fun joke to mess with my friend and I guess it did real harm. I am very, very sorry to you and my friend Eylon.

    Moderators can see your registered email address.  You are Eylon.  Don't even attempt to pull that stunt here.  Any further attempts from you to keep up this charade will simply not be approved.

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    A comment has been removed due to a violation of the Community Guidelines and Code of Conduct. A comment may be removed for one or more violations. If after reading the guidelines and code of conduct you feel this message was in error, please contact One (1) staff member.

    I am a Bot. My inbox is not monitored. Beep boop.

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    cknsausage
    4 hours ago, Scourge said:

    So they are seriously trying to play this hold thing off as their "friend" pulling a prank of them. Even posted a journal on FA as well. https://imgur.com/a/8gW1ckp

    Even if one were to entertain the thought of it being a joke by someone else, let's list the red flags:

    - No message to the artist after these mysterious 'friend's' messages were sent - surely that's something you'd rush to apologize for / explain? And the artist responded sooo.. not likely they didn't see it

    - Somehow doesn't have the TG chat after only a couple of weeks

    - 'Abruptly excused myself (unsaid) - again, what? Just didn't return to check the messages.. ever?

    - Throws friend (if they exist) under the bus with generic excuses ('they steal and aren't all there mentally'). Cool.

    Hmmmmm.. surely, apologizing is less effort than trying to divert and place blame where it's not due? Lmao, honestly. This dude is ridiculous.

    Edited by cknsausage
    Spelling error
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    AutoModerator

    A comment has been removed due to a violation of the Community Guidelines and Code of Conduct. A comment may be removed for one or more violations. If after reading the guidelines and code of conduct you feel this message was in error, please contact One (1) staff member.

    I am a Bot. My inbox is not monitored. Beep boop.

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    UAZ469
    On 4/6/2019 at 7:09 AM, Scourge said:

    So they are seriously trying to play this hold thing off as their "friend" pulling a prank of them. Even posted a journal on FA as well. https://imgur.com/a/8gW1ckp

    Given how often the "My brother/sister/friend did it!"-excuse is used when appealing bans on servers, I call nonsense on that and he's just trying to avoid taking responsibilty for his behaviour.

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    Scourge
    10 hours ago, UAZ469 said:

    Given how often the "My brother/sister/friend did it!"-excuse is used when appealing bans on servers, I call nonsense on that and he's just trying to avoid taking responsibilty for his behaviour.

    Oh I know. But I'm glad they tried to comment here and say the same thing without knowing the admins can see their email. Only proves this is all lies.

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    CylenX

    Goodness, this is indeed laughable coming from the commissioner. You've nailed every point about their imaginary "ToS", which is something I have never heard a commissioner have before. That is equivalent to me going to a store, canceling what I was about to buy, and telling the cashier, "Hey, don't let anybody buy that ok? If they do, I'm calling the police because they're stealing it."

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go to lunch with my boss, the CEO of Microsoft. I promised I'll pay his way since he's short on cash today.

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    UrbanCoyote

    He was irked by this, saying that he'd rather I not reuse it, since he would be using the sketch.

     

    Holy heck, I simply cannot NOPE this hard enough. Everything this person has done during your interaction is beyond comprehension. 

     

    I know writing one of these isn't always easy, but thank you so much for the heads up.

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