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  • Caution - AishaSlayde


    ichick
    • Who: AishaSlayde
      Where: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/yukai.slayde/
      https://www.patreon.com/stindustries
      https://picarto.tv/AishaSlayde
      https://twitter.com/sergaltech
      Discord: AishaSlayde#1989
      When: 05/20/2020
      What: Commission
      NSFW Content Resolved
    Celestina

    Edit:  Hello!  This post was resolved, so the image has been removed from our site.  The client commissioned the artist under the condition that it'd be private.  There's no reason to keep it online.

    This was submitted as a beware, but was approved as a Caution for the time being.  Both parties submitted to us, but in the end we felt the client had a stronger claim than the artist.  The artist, however, did submit this journal link as the original ad has been confirmed by both parties to have been deleted.

    Message added by Celestina

    Artist On a public Discord, did not hold up their end of the deal, and choose to try and run away with the money without doing the correct work or even hold up their end of the deal. The First part about the commission remaining private is also a lie on their end. As it is posted on their FA https://www.furaffinity.net/view/36446919/ Also an imgur link in case they try and hide the proof. https://imgur.com/HHNJI1F
    1.thumb.PNG.610f2a7578261c980ac309a7c0be6896.PNG

    2.thumb.PNG.a3852ae43fb2a8ec84388ce40a84e07b.PNG

    3.PNG.7e9d587791d344d475d104c25544d030.PNG

    image.png.d8b069d2ebc86c1fd50f6b67fc8c9f1e.png5.thumb.PNG.4c4a3700acb44ee9ffe5aa0b6a8ae231.PNG6.thumb.PNG.40ef17c5060c507f1ed23825d7ccbe3e.PNG7.thumb.PNG.8bdd9b510729e6f680f105eb519f4a77.PNG

    Edit: 05.21.20

    The artist has put my private email up on their website.

    image.png.68abd162581bb3a17ab55e568b4d5212.png

    Edited by Celestina
    reordered caps, added cap OP has sent in



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    Wow okay, I'm going to agree with OP that the character looks nothing like in the reference. Style is one thing, but to make a character slim instead of chubby, making the character have tiny horns and hands instead of huge, making the arms not muscular and more is not style change, it's just ignoring important key aspects of a character. I'd be upset too and unhappy about the art too, even more so that they doxxed your private email. If anything, they should've given you half the money back. Atleast that's how I see it, personally.

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    Okay might as well rip off the band-aid because it's going to come up regardless.  This artist's gallery is full of items that look referenced from porn or some kind of 3D render like Second Life.  (There's no proof of tracing, so it's not fair to claim that without it.)  There's nothing wrong with using references for poses, and we're not here to critique anyone's work.  I'll leave it at that.  The issue is that in order to produce their work it leaves very little wiggle room to handle characters that deviate from whatever sources they're using.  Your character is not thin.  She's got curves, and what was delivered... just plain doesn't.  That's not a stylistic difference.  That's an error.

    Your character doesn't match anything in their gallery, but clients don't often know how to tell whether or not what they're asking for is what the artist can produce in the first place.  Rather than drastically changing the character to fit within their limits, the Artist should have declined your commission from the get go.  You were looking for something that sounds stylistic, while they don't produce that kind of content.

    Should you have been nicer?  Yea.  You get more flies with honey.  But being in a line of work that has a lot of customer service aspects means handling angry clients.  Doubling down on getting a character wrong is exactly how you escalate a situation rather than deescalate. 

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    When the finished product is in no way faithful to the reference; you know there is a problem and you cannot "its my style" your way out of it.

    I'm personally under the impression that this artist heavily referenced porn or something for the pose and just ran with that without adjusting shapes and hair to match the ref. There is nothing wrong with reference but it's a tool not a crutch or an excuse to go off model regardless of price. If they couldn't faithfully come close to your character they shouldn't have taken on the work.

    You have every right to be upset about this although you could have worded things better. But the artist should have seen this coming tbqh... in a fandom where appearances are everything to its members to take someone's character off model without permission is a slap in the face.

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    Depending on the state you live in you can actually file legal action for the artist leaking personal information afrer a business transaction as doing so is illegal in some states (assuming you live in the US) as a breech of client privacy.

    Not only that but it is HIGHLY unprofessional and a form of DOXing.

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    26 minutes ago, Alkraas said:

    Wow okay, I'm going to agree with OP that the character looks nothing like in the reference. Style is one thing, but to make a character slim instead of chubby, making the character have tiny horns and hands instead of huge, making the arms not muscular and more is not style change, it's just ignoring important key aspects of a character. I'd be upset too and unhappy about the art too, even more so that they doxxed your private email. If anything, they should've given you half the money back. Atleast that's how I see it, personally.

    Emails are not private, especially if they are linked with a paypal account. Doxxing, would be releasing independant bank account info, their real name as it appears on the paypal invoice and such.

    15 minutes ago, Xaila said:

    When the finished product is in no way faithful to the reference; you know there is a problem and you cannot "its my style" your way out of it.

    I'm personally under the impression that this artist heavily referenced porn or something for the pose and just ran with that without adjusting shapes and hair to match the ref. There is nothing wrong with reference but it's a tool not a crutch or an excuse to go off model regardless of price. If they couldn't faithfully come close to your character they shouldn't have taken on the work.

    You have every right to be upset about this although you could have worded things better. But the artist should have seen this coming tbqh... in a fandom where appearances are everything to its members to take someone's character off model without permission is a slap in the face.

    You are right, it is not a crutch, it is a tool. No, I am not used to drawing larger preportions. had they been civil from the beginning and asked for changes without the ranting, name-calling, berating and everything else, I would have been much more inclined to work with them. I did message them here to ask if they would like changes made, pending some things. I also even asked if the staff from the server would forward the offer to them. But that part, of course, wasn't included here.

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    3 minutes ago, AishaSlayde said:

    Emails are not private, especially if they are linked with a paypal account. Doxxing, would be releasing independant bank account info, their real name as it appears on the paypal invoice and such.

    You are right, it is not a crutch, it is a tool. No, I am not used to drawing larger preportions. had they been civil from the beginning and asked for changes without the ranting, name-calling, berating and everything else, I would have been much more inclined to work with them. I did message them here to ask if they would like changes made, pending some things. I also even asked if the staff from the server would forward the offer to them. But that part, of course, wasn't included here.

    What part of email is not private? i use my email for private matters my banking my PAYPAL! my cards etc, what part of that isn't private? i would understand if it were a throw away but thats just false. you also broke the one thing i asked at the beginning which is to keep the commission private, you just bypassed that and posted it anyways.

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    5 minutes ago, AishaSlayde said:

    Emails are not private, especially if they are linked with a paypal account. Doxxing, would be releasing independant bank account info, their real name as it appears on the paypal invoice and such.

    You are right, it is not a crutch, it is a tool. No, I am not used to drawing larger preportions. had they been civil from the beginning and asked for changes without the ranting, name-calling, berating and everything else, I would have been much more inclined to work with them. I did message them here to ask if they would like changes made, pending some things. I also even asked if the staff from the server would forward the offer to them. But that part, of course, wasn't included here.

    You uploaded their email (private or not) as an act of malicious intent by using defamation/slander. That is a form of doxing.

    Capture+_2020-05-21-13-03-50.png

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    6 minutes ago, ichick said:

    What part of email is not private? i use my email for private matters my banking my PAYPAL! my cards etc, what part of that isn't private? i would understand if it were a throw away but thats just false. you also broke the one thing i asked at the beginning which is to keep the commission private, you just bypassed that and posted it anyways.

    I did not, I only uploaded it AFTER you opened the paypal case, as I needed a place for it to be housed so I could provide paypal with a link. The upload literally even eludes to that, but, somehow, you decided not to include that fact.

    Edited by AishaSlayde

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    1 minute ago, Luna996 said:

    You uploaded their email (private or not) as an act of malicious intent by using defamation/slander. That is a form of doxing.

    [snip image for size]

    Whoa putting my mod hat on: I'm gonna stop this conversation from both of you.  @Luna996 @AishaSlayde

    Aisha sharing their side isn't libel.  They're welcome to talk about it, and they provided evidence. Remember, libel is untrue things.

    Ethically releasing something not public can be considered harassment.  It's why we make people censor a ton of stuff.

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    6 minutes ago, AishaSlayde said:

    I did not, I only uploaded it AFTER you opened the paypal case, as I needed a place for it to be housed so I could provide paypal with a link. The upload literally even eludes to that, but, somehow, you decided not to include that fact.

    wait what does that have to do with anything, your diverting the situation away from yourself i really don't like that.

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    14 minutes ago, AishaSlayde said:

    No, I am not used to drawing larger preportions.

    WHY did you not clarify this to the client? That's something you say from the getgo. You told them and I quote from the caps

    "Of course :3 She's cute, love the horns too"

    A lot of artists when posting that they're open for commissions will list their strengths and weaknesses in what they can draw. If you cannot draw past your referenced images of slender large breasted women(and obviously large horns that you recognized were a big feature but you did not draw) the onus is on you to declare that and confirm your client understands because not all clients are gonna do their homework so if you don't want repeats of this; this is what you have to do.

    BTW... Attempting to tone police OP's dissatisfaction when we're talking about you is an attempt to derail I am not taking. 

    Also no mod of any website or server should ever communicate FOR YOU in the event of a block because that can be read as a block evasion by the one who initiated said block.

     

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    10 minutes ago, Xaila said:

    WHY did you not clarify this to the client?

    I figured that was apparent as an example was provided, and they could have at any time looked through the entirety of my gallery.

    11 minutes ago, Xaila said:

    BTW... Attempting to tone police OP's dissatisfaction when we're talking about you is an attempt to derail I am not taking. 

    I am doing no such thing, I am simply stating that things would have gone better had that happened.

    12 minutes ago, Xaila said:

    because not all clients are gonna do their homework

    When I commission anyone, I ask a lot of questions, I do a lot of research. It would behoove others to do the same. I am not going to list all of that for each advertisement, people should have a bit of forethought when it comes to commissioning someone.

    13 minutes ago, Xaila said:

    Also no mod of any website or server should ever communicate FOR YOU

    Those mods came to me, asking if I would offer a solution. I did. I did not ask them to communicate for me, or to me. I said to extend the offer, IF they wanted to. They do not have to, nor are they required to.

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    They may have looked or may not have looked but the exact moment they gave you the reference, I repeat the onus is still on you to clarify

    And yes. You are. While we can all agree they came out strong with their anger you did jackall to turn it around in an appropriate manner; and you continue to lean on the excuse that they needed to be nicer to you. 

    Annnd... again. Not everyone is you. Not everyone will do their research especially when you put an inexpensive slot at a limited amount out there. I'm telling you this so you don't get a repeat of this situation and instead you scoff. So you obviously don't want to learn how to avoid this and would rather wallow in a type of victimhood that isn't doing you favors and I'm only exacerbating trying to tell you so. So this will be the last you get from me, for my own piece of mind. 

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    5 minutes ago, Xaila said:

    And yes. You are. While we can all agree they came out strong with their anger you did jackall to turn it around in an appropriate manner; and you continue to lean on the excuse that they needed to be nicer to you.

    That isnt true. I was pretty civil during the entire conversation. They also did not include the portion of the conversation where I offered them advice on the paypal case thing. Knowing how paypal worked, and knowing that it would further violate my ToS.

    On the people being nicer thing. As stated in these comments befoer, you get more flies with honey. When you treat people like garbage, everyne being human, many times, you are going to get the same thing back. Could I have been a bit more professional? Yes. Alas, I am human and I let my emotion get the best of me in those moments.

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    I have further asked if they wanted the changes made pending some things, they said no. They said they wanted the refund they are trying to process through paypal.

    I asked if I issued the refund, what would happen. They said they would mark it as recolved. And for me to take down the beware on my site.

    I countered with my offer of the refund, removing the beware on my site, and they have this one removed. I have yet to hear back.

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    7 minutes ago, AishaSlayde said:

    I have further asked if they wanted the changes made pending some things, they said no. They said they wanted the refund they are trying to process through paypal.

    I asked if I issued the refund, what would happen. They said they would mark it as recolved. And for me to take down the beware on my site.

    I countered with my offer of the refund, removing the beware on my site, and they have this one removed. I have yet to hear back.

    They have no ability to delete posts. Our site is not a bargaining chip. We normally escalate cautions to bewares for holding resolution hostage in exchange for deletion. We moved from livejournal to a site that allows us to disable user deletion or edits to prevent this.

    I'm going to operate under the benefit of the doubt that you missed the various notices that we don't delete, and not escalate this to a beware. The big, bold red notices.

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    9 minutes ago, Celestina said:

    They have no ability to delete posts. Our site is not a bargaining chip. We normally escalate cautions to bewares for holding resolution hostage in exchange for deletion. We moved from livejournal to a site that allows us to disable user deletion or edits to prevent this.

    I'm going to operate under the benefit of the doubt that you missed the various notices that we don't delete, and not escalate this to a beware. The big, bold red notices.

    I dont get on AB a lot, I dont really have a reason to. I know a long time ago it used to be on live-journal. I only requested that they ask for it to be deleted, as they were asking me to delete mine. Which I have the ability to do on my own site, I would assume that the ability to delete from here is also available to either Moderators, administrators and so on.

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    14 minutes ago, AishaSlayde said:

    I dont get on AB a lot, I dont really have a reason to. I know a long time ago it used to be on live-journal. I only requested that they ask for it to be deleted, as they were asking me to delete mine. Which I have the ability to do on my own site, I would assume that the ability to delete from here is also available to either Moderators, administrators and so on.

    The ability to delete is there, what they were trying to say is that deleting is against the rules of this particular site. Information on that is at the top of this post, but here's a direct link for you: https://artistsbeware.info/postedtoab/

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    Umm hi hello. Web Admin here. While I won't be touching on the validity of the complaints, however much I must agree that the disparity between subject and finish piece is quite large...

    Displaying private information, such as email, name, IP Address or other PII without the express consent of the third party is a violation of several laws. Most notable among these is the European GDPR regulations. While your site may not be located in the EU, so long as it remains accessible from and/or provides services to the EU, GDPR applies.

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    6 minutes ago, sbneko said:

    The ability to delete is there, what they were trying to say is that deleting is against the rules of this particular site. Information on that is at the top of this post, but here's a direct link for you: https://artistsbeware.info/postedtoab/

    Ahhh, allright. As I mentioned just a moment ago. I dont get on here much, never really had a reason to. I have no idea what is in updates and all that. Literally, today is the first time I have actually come here and logged in, in a very long time.

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    As an artist, I would hate being addressed like this, even if the client's complaint is valid. Exploding instantly like this makes people go heavily on the defensive where a civil tone could have paved the way to corrections/negotiations.

    That said, as an artist, it's important to accept when things can't be done due to personal skill or issues. Or to accept if a client is unhappy after being promised certain things and those things aren't done. This is why sketch WIPs are important, or in case of wing-its, being able to accept fault for missing something in the ref. Communication is always key and I find myself sometimes on the border of annoying clients with detail questions so I can be sure I'm as accurate to what they are envisioning.

    Sometimes things go wrong and that's why it is so important to be able to handle this on either side of the commission experience.

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    Called paypal up, had them force the claim I escalated their case to in order to perform the refund. (As once its escalated to a claim, the option for me to refund manually is no longer available)

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