Beware - Ravensmoon666

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In what world does a person think "I had a DMCA filed against me = i should get my money back"?

Raven should have respected Efsher wanting to stay out of the drama if her health couldn't handle that kind of stress, not go the rout she went in response. That was no way to respond to Efsher by any means. An artist has the rights to refuse service. She should never have gone and edited the art and take out the credits without permission just because of bad blood with Adiago in what I can only guess was petty revenge for being professionally refused further business involving the character.

Plus as an artist herself, Raven should know better than to do such a thing to another artist, let alone one she commissioned and paid. If the credits were such a problem, she should have said something before accepting the final piece for some form of a compramise.

I guess Raven's bad blood with Adiago (she won't even credit Adiago under any Eclipse/Abyss Drake artwork as the species creator anymore as a result of it) has left her judgement between right and wrong severely clouded...

I actually have a question about this considering i've been hearing a lot about this Eclipse/Abyss Drake species considering is it a closed species considering if that's so that's in itself is a big massive yikes right there. Considering there's so many red flags right there.

25 minutes ago, armaina said:

The thing that I don't understand is, why does Raven not just change the name of the species completely. If she really wants to wash her hands of Adiago, wouldn't it be best to Not keep the name of the species wrapped up in your character at all? Raven should have been up-front with this all from the beginning so that the artist could have made an informed choice.

That all being said, the edit itself isn't a bad thing, the client received PSDs, permitting her to change the text, so for all intents and purposes, the image itself was not edited, such as the art itself. I can understand's Raven's frustration but my sympathy goes out the window once she responded with a charge back instead of communicating with the artist at all.

Wouldn't that just make matters worse though with the drama between her and Adiago? Can she even do that?

And even if she changed the text and such, wouldn't it have been better to ask Efsher first? That way it didn't make it seem Efsher did it and was as Celstina said: "snubbing the creator"?

6 minutes ago, Xaila said:

Raven owns the designs because she bought them. But I believe she had a falling out with the owner (Adiago) so of course said species owner 'cuts' those characters out of the species; but instead of going their own way and making a new name, Raven continues to call them by that particular species. Why? Don't know.

She has a post on FA somewhere on another account where she has made a side "branch off" lore about Abyss Drakes that goes completely against the cannon lore. At that point I would think she'd have just renamed this spin off race given all the drastic changes to the lore. But even then i still wonder if that'd even be something right to do...

I'm honestly conflicted if renaming would just make things better or worse.

Not to necessarily question too much but if a PSD was given with the right to change information presented (I would assume such since the fonts used were also provided) unless it’s stated in your TOS or the agreement with Raven that she can’t remove the species credits, where is the problem? I could have honestly missed something but i don’t see a DMCA or any takedown warning and after being refused further work with her drake and then being DMCA’d I can kind of see why she would chargeback the work? As far as I can see she didn’t break any terms of the artist’s and then had her artwork forcibly removed by them

The Adiago stuff is a whole other issue entirely I feel like. I don’t know, just looking at this objectively I don’t really feel like Raven did anything wrong beyond not responding when the artist mentioned being concerned. Even that seemed more friendly or casual than ‘return the credits please or I will have the artwork forcibly removed’

Not to double post (I couldn’t find a way to edit my post) but I did just check out the posted TOS of the OP on their page and I didn’t find any ‘do not edit’ clause at all. Not just ‘do not remove credit’ but I found absolutely nothing saying not to edit any part of the piece. Is the TOS Raven agreed to different than the one posted under the commission tab?

25 minutes ago, AsylumPatient said:

Not to necessarily question too much but if a PSD was given with the right to change information presented (I would assume such since the fonts used were also provided) unless it’s stated in your TOS or the agreement with Raven that she can’t remove the species credits, where is the problem? I could have honestly missed something but i don’t see a DMCA or any takedown warning and after being refused further work with her drake and then being DMCA’d I can kind of see why she would chargeback the work? As far as I can see she didn’t break any terms of the artist’s and then had her artwork forcibly removed by them

 

The Adiago stuff is a whole other issue entirely I feel like. I don’t know, just looking at this objectively I don’t really feel like Raven did anything wrong beyond not responding when the artist mentioned being concerned. Even that seemed more friendly or casual than ‘return the credits please or I will have the artwork forcibly removed’

 

While I gave Raven the PSD files, I did not give her permission to remove the credits I placed. As per my commission prices, all edits after a finished image are $5 more. I would have been willing to make any edits, but I was not going to remove the credits to Adiago. I did not appreciate her editing my work without my permission, and messaged her about it. I gave her plenty of time to reply and even waited to see if she would change it back too. She can still upload the originals still if she wants. Because she wasn't responding and FurAffinity staff said as the artist I could have the images removed I went that rout. I was also worried if I gave her a warning I'd get another response like I got telling her I wouldn't draw her drake anymore. I wouldn't had even made the post if she didn't file a chargeback and placed me in the negatives...

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I don't understand why some clients act this way, it's so immature. I just want to wish you well and hope this issue gets solved 🙂

6 hours ago, AsylumPatient said:

 

 

This is probably going to be my only reply to this post as I knew when in opening the case Artist Beware would not agree with my actions as I've seen how they react to things many times.

As AsylumPatient said above, I was under the impression if I was given the PSD (as well as given the exact font and size) I had permission to edit it.

I removed Adiago's credit because of two reasons, I never gave permission for it to be writen in my original commission, and I never wanted the name of the woman who in herself still owes me 370$ along with months of abuse and harassment.

Efsher and I have always been fine, no issues and this was my second time commissioning her. Things only blew up until I went to commission her a third time and she told me that I could continue to use her artwork but she had someone come to her about the drama between Adiago and I and she didn't want to work with me again.
I tried explaining my side as I had no idea what had been said and hadn't and linked her my beware on Deviant art and showed her the beware I had written as well as Adiago's Kiwifarm threads since it had more proof than I had and told her she if she changed her mind she could message me. She reaffirmed that she didn't want to take sides. Okay, cool. I was upset but I let it drop and marked her off as an artist I could commission.

I had somethings with Adiago pop up, as I had been trying my best to ignore her after almost a year of dealing with and she wrote Tweets about how I stole from her, so on an so forth. I had enough and had been wanting to remove the credit that had been bugging me since I commissioned my reference and removed it. I'd never had an artist in all of my years of commissioning give out the PSD's and font sizes if it wasn't for text changes. So I assumed it was okay.

Efsher noted me weeks later and commented how I took Adiago's name off the reference, and said it 'wasn't cool to remove credit.' I hadn't Efsher's credits and assumed one of Adiago's followers must have saw it and messaged Efsher about it (maybe the same one who noted her back then). I went silent because I'm not good at conflict and I wasn't sure what to say and after talking it over with my mates and friends I just let it drop as well.

I wasn't given a warning that she would file a takedown if I didn't answer her or revert the piece, I should have answered her but I didn't and I take fault.

As said above, I did not remove Efsher's credit, I would not remove artist credit and it's even seen by if you go back to my original referencesheets of Eclipse that I haven't even removed Adiago's.

https://gyazo.com/ab5b94e3422cbe4cc195f1d98cd15e62 I was told it was removed for "unauthorized use", I even disputed with writing a ticket in response showing where I had proof of use and Furaffinity held strong.

I do not really use any Website other than Furaffinity, having it taken down from my gallery without warning and no further discussion isn't right either and the reference is basically useless to me if I cannot use it there. I know many will not agree with how I handled things and I second guess myself as well but again.

I paid 570$ for a reference I'm not allowed to use on the Website I conduct all of my art related business with all over credits to an abusive woman who still will not let things go even when I do 'play by her rules' because she hates me.

I know people won't agree with me, I'll take this Artist Beware in and accept full fault but I at least want my side on here for anyone who does read.

2 minutes ago, Xaila said:

We're allowed to be a little disappointed to see you ask for a full 575 dollar REFUND because you removed the text. Add it back. You don't have to like it; but you also know very well artist's rights on FA are taken seriously when it comes to uploading/reuploading.

OP was and is allowed to be uncomfortable with what you did. And to no longer do work with these particular characters, nor hear any 'sides'. You yourself know how Adiago acts and their temperament; so why would you fight OP wanting to protect themselves? Why would you in what for all we know is a fit of petty... try to drag them into whatever is between you and Adiago? Literally I have nothing against you (although I have a feeling you think otherwise). Like I said in my prior post; I have only ever seen you as someone who usually champions artists! So this is a step back from what I've seen of you in the past.

Add it back. No one is saying you need to display the credit in 100 point font in the center of the image. 6 point font in the lower right corner can't be that harmful; fulfills the requirement, its not obtrusive and its done with.

I hope you drop the chargeback.

https://gyazo.com/5a285a08730822939c43ecb8ffeb6f5c

Definitely complicated feelings. This is not a fun situation. Having a character from a species that has an owner that treats you like that is horrible. Those tweets are so mean sounding. 

However, despite how the creator may act, you can't just....stop listening to their rules? You're using the species, and credit should still be given. And as said by others, you can still use the ref, with the credit given. So I don't agree that the OP is expected to lose out on all the work they did for this reference. 

It really seems like a situation where you need to rename the species, or even slight design changes to make it a hybrid of something else. This is just advice, since it seems like you need to get away from the creator with how they are acting, but you also can't just use it without following the rules. 

2 hours ago, Ravensmoon666 said:

I was told it was removed for "unauthorized use", I even disputed with writing a ticket in response showing where I had proof of use and Furaffinity held strong.

I do not really use any Website other than Furaffinity, having it taken down from my gallery without warning and no further discussion isn't right either and the reference is basically useless to me if I cannot use it there. I know many will not agree with how I handled things and I second guess myself as well but again.

I paid 570$ for a reference I'm not allowed to use on the Website I conduct all of my art related business with all over credits to an abusive woman who still will not let things go even when I do 'play by her rules' because she hates me.

The unauthorized use was removing credits that the species creator required and OP was abiding by. They still finished the work and you were happy with it, if it weren't for the fact they were required by the species creator to place the credits there. The chargeback with zero communication is unacceptable.

7 hours ago, Ravensmoon666 said:

https://gyazo.com/5a285a08730822939c43ecb8ffeb6f5c

That is one of the most nastiest egotistical attitudes ever from reading that. no wonder they're suspended from FA. Though seriously why are you still using said creator species when it's clear from their TOS that's it's a closed species and a very restrictive one at that. 

8 hours ago, Ravensmoon666 said:

This is probably going to be my only reply to this post as I knew when in opening the case Artist Beware would not agree with my actions as I've seen how they react to things many times.

As AsylumPatient said above, I was under the impression if I was given the PSD (as well as given the exact font and size) I had permission to edit it.

I removed Adiago's credit because of two reasons, I never gave permission for it to be writen in my original commission, and I never wanted the name of the woman who in herself still owes me 370$ along with months of abuse and harassment.

Efsher and I have always been fine, no issues and this was my second time commissioning her. Things only blew up until I went to commission her a third time and she told me that I could continue to use her artwork but she had someone come to her about the drama between Adiago and I and she didn't want to work with me again.
I tried explaining my side as I had no idea what had been said and hadn't and linked her my beware on Deviant art and showed her the beware I had written as well as Adiago's Kiwifarm threads since it had more proof than I had and told her she if she changed her mind she could message me. She reaffirmed that she didn't want to take sides. Okay, cool. I was upset but I let it drop and marked her off as an artist I could commission.

I had somethings with Adiago pop up, as I had been trying my best to ignore her after almost a year of dealing with and she wrote Tweets about how I stole from her, so on an so forth. I had enough and had been wanting to remove the credit that had been bugging me since I commissioned my reference and removed it. I'd never had an artist in all of my years of commissioning give out the PSD's and font sizes if it wasn't for text changes. So I assumed it was okay.

Efsher noted me weeks later and commented how I took Adiago's name off the reference, and said it 'wasn't cool to remove credit.' I hadn't Efsher's credits and assumed one of Adiago's followers must have saw it and messaged Efsher about it (maybe the same one who noted her back then). I went silent because I'm not good at conflict and I wasn't sure what to say and after talking it over with my mates and friends I just let it drop as well.

I wasn't given a warning that she would file a takedown if I didn't answer her or revert the piece, I should have answered her but I didn't and I take fault.

As said above, I did not remove Efsher's credit, I would not remove artist credit and it's even seen by if you go back to my original referencesheets of Eclipse that I haven't even removed Adiago's.

https://gyazo.com/ab5b94e3422cbe4cc195f1d98cd15e62 I was told it was removed for "unauthorized use", I even disputed with writing a ticket in response showing where I had proof of use and Furaffinity held strong.

I do not really use any Website other than Furaffinity, having it taken down from my gallery without warning and no further discussion isn't right either and the reference is basically useless to me if I cannot use it there. I know many will not agree with how I handled things and I second guess myself as well but again.

I paid 570$ for a reference I'm not allowed to use on the Website I conduct all of my art related business with all over credits to an abusive woman who still will not let things go even when I do 'play by her rules' because she hates me.

I know people won't agree with me, I'll take this Artist Beware in and accept full fault but I at least want my side on here for anyone who does read.

 

I actually tried to contact you yesterday but then I saw I was banned which is actually a sad thing.
I'm more than happy to solve this situation with small blood any time.
I'll just re-type something I had to say, okay?
As an artist, I do not understand complete copyright removal, whatever the situation may be. I've had some issues where mutual hate and closed species are involved, and it just ended peacefully. We never get in contact, they keep the closed species characters and do not try to remove the credits or steal the species. I wish it could be that easy for you.
If you ever consider changing your character's species I'm more than happy to implement the changes to the reference.
I also thought to offer making the copyright very very transparent somewhere on the image so you won't pay any attention to it. You should've said something about it when I sent you the final variation.
So to say, you have my permission to use the reference with the due credits given somehow, I keep telling about it within our PayPal discussion or here.
I might have been hot headed to take the image down without any warning, which I'd like to apologise for if the situation solves.
I'm also really sorry to hear you're being attacked in twitter like this. I don't think this is okay, but some people said everything about it above, I don't think I should repeat it.

Unless i misread Im sure Efsher didn't want ANY credits removed from her art.

I also will mimic what i said before: if Raven didn't want Adiago credited, why did she go and accept the final pieces where the credits where plain as they right there? Why didnt she mention this to Efsher from the beginning?

It looks like she didn't mention it at all when she placed the order not to credit Adiago, so she can't complain to Efsher as if it was her fault Raven had to edit the work. Raven trying to think she can get her money back for all this while putting 90% blame on Efsher is just wrong.

Removing credits because she "had enough" and "assumed" it was okay since she got the PDF files is just wrong. You should never "assume" something is okay to do when it comes to editing an artist artwork. It is common curtisy to ask first. Even then Efsher clearly didnt want to offend Adiago, and being she is an artist, she knows it is best to credit another artist to keep things professional and be respectful. Even if someone doesn't like someone, it should be explanitory to still give credit where it is due unless the person just wants to look bad.