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  • Beware: Toasti/ Toast435

    Eelowyn

    By Eelowyn

      • Who: Toasti/Toast435
      Where: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/toast435/
      When: 03/30/2019
      What: Commission

      Resolved

    I had worked with this person in the past (like, last few years) on occasional commissions/in stream slots, and had a friendship with them. In march shortly after my birthday they had an emergency chibi sale due to some life issues they were having, so I got a chibi slot. On the journal (which unfortunately was deleted after the fact so I cannot go back to screenshot directly) it was stated that the chibis would be done pretty quickly, if i remember correctly it had either same day or within a week I think?

    It was not mentioned that it was part of a larger queue. Never got any updates or the art piece so after 2 months I asked the first time for an update. Didn't get one and was told they were moving so there was no update.

    So I waited until June... In a Picarto stream i pmed/wisped them directly and asked if they would be working on mine in the stream, they told me they were working on their Trello backlog...I checked out their Trello and my art was nowhere to be found. Mentioned this and they finally added it.

    Waited another 2 months (so August), watching their Trello board, seeing them add new things all the time, and do work on the newly added things, but never any update on mine.

    During this time they were doing in streams constantly, and also trying to advertise to me to buy from them again.

    Confronted them in August that i was uncomfortable with the lack of communication, with things being bumped ahead in the trello que, and that as there had clearly been no update (as I hadn't ever gotten one, and the Trello still had it marked as not started) that I'd like a refund.

    They flipped out, claimed there was actually a sketch done (no proof of one was ever given)

    I asked them to either finish the piece, or refund me as I had been waiting a long time, had been super patient and not pestering for updates.

    They said they would rather refund, and it would take up to a month and that they would turn the supposed sketch into a YCH. Still never showed it to me. I agreed to wait the month.

    I gave them almost 2 months, still nothing but them asking me to wait so they could get their nephew a birthday gift.

    I offered again for them to do a cheaper art piece. this occurred in one of their Picarto streams in a wisp chat so unfortunately I dont have screenshots of this as at that point I wasn't thinking I would have to do a beware, but had offered if it would be easier they could do an in stream sketch instead of the refund as I didn't want to cause financial hardship for them, again they refused. Just to note, the chibi was 20 and the in streams were 16, so i would have been fine accepting lower cost art in place of a refund if it would have been easier for them!

    I confronted her about it last night as I have been super patient, not badgering for updates, and actively trying to work with her on this. As can be seen in the screenshots they flipped out, then had her bf message on her account to insult and be rude AF, and finally she agreed to actually refund me.

    This morning I got an email showing that I was partially refunded because of claiming she started a sketch which honestly, there was never any proof of if and only mentioned after I expressed wanting a refund, so I'm almost entirely certain it was a lie to try to keep the money as on their trello it was clearly marked as not started, had zero updates and even now ive never seen the supposed sketch.

    I attempted to contact her again, expressing that a partial refund was not acceptable, and she had blocked me on Discord so I had to leave a shout on her FA.

    This was a complete disaster of a situation and I wouldnt wish it on anyone. I am still waiting for the other half of my refund but I am skeptical on if they will ever send it.


    I left a shout on their FA, expecting that they finish refunding me. They removed the shout, screenshots to show the new shouts that were posted as well as email I sent after they blocked me.

    After contacting them via email and making it clear I was not just going to drop it and provided the sketch. The sketch provided however, is very clearly NOT my character as it is a generic feline with a small mouth, and long tail. The character requested to have draw is a saber cat, with a nub tail. Sketch is included below to show it is clearly not the character shown in the ref
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    0
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    • Administrator
    Eden

    Eden 529

    Posted

    • Administrator

    Okidokey time to pop in and call dogpiling. Scourge is going to be the last person to have their reply to Zuazhes's comments approved.  Please use the like feature from here.

    RTKobold

    RTKobold 102

    Posted

    This is one of the most embarrassing bewares I've ever read, and seen looking at both sides of the story it's really  clear the artist is at fault especially that journal of theirs is not helping them.

    It's a very good thing i'd took a screencap of the artist said journal. especially those comments from it are not helping her at all. Why would you lie that you refunded and gave the op the sketch when it's clear it's was a partial refund and the not a sketch at all but of all things a base which is not just unprofessional but insulting to the client.

    And wanting something positive to hold on. If you wanted to do that  Why not just post here and resolve this yourself with the op instead of bringing your friends to do your battles for you and not post journals like this.


    Screenshot.thumb.png.5dda35ad70498db4792087400a605452.png



     

    9
    • Popular Comment
    Arwen

    Arwen 25

    Posted

    • Popular Comment

    Honestly her friends coming here and /continuing/ to mob Eelowyn are doing her no favors. This is the second or third time ive seen this person having a go at Eelowyn over this. They also spammed toast's shouts with how good an artist toast is after Eelowyn had shouted originally asking for the remainder of her refund.

     

    Toast needs to come here and resolve this. Not her rude boyfriend, not her white knighting friends. Toast. THATS the professional thing to do.

    11
    Eelowyn

    Eelowyn 12

    Posted

    Update: they have unblocked to contact me via Discord and have expressed that they will send the remaining of the owed commission as well as have stated I may keep the sketch. Screenshots included below of the update 
    Screenshots seem to have sent in opposite order, so keep that in mind when reading

    Inkedimage.png.8b8b2e0d78958a05d141937c4bdbd8a1_LI.thumb.jpg.4dedc9a5a8b56d1ec0c8fb4e547617c7.jpg
    image.thumb.png.1fb414ef65762a852cc4dd7c5cadaf34.png

    image.thumb.png.820a00b08816a51a783a4c24961556b3.png

     

    • Administrator
    Eden

    Eden 529

    Posted

    • Administrator

    Hid your post for a split second to censor the Paypal cap and fix the ordering of caps.

    Also want to double check that you did get the rest of the money so I can mark this as resolved.

    Scourge

    Scourge 48

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Eelowyn said:

    Update: they have unblocked to contact me via Discord and have expressed that they will send the remaining of the owed commission as well as have stated I may keep the sketch. Screenshots included below of the update 
    Screenshots seem to have sent in opposite order, so keep that in mind when reading

    Inkedimage.png.8b8b2e0d78958a05d141937c4bdbd8a1_LI.thumb.jpg.4dedc9a5a8b56d1ec0c8fb4e547617c7.jpg
    image.thumb.png.1fb414ef65762a852cc4dd7c5cadaf34.png

    image.thumb.png.820a00b08816a51a783a4c24961556b3.png

     

    Yeah that once again seems like she's making whatever excuse she can to put any amount of blame on you. While it's good you're getting the rest of your money this beware shows it far from simply one bad experience. 

    4
    • Senior Staff
    • Popular Comment
    armaina

    armaina 212

    Posted

    • Senior Staff
    • Popular Comment

    I'm glad to see that this was fully refunded but it's clear to me that the artist still does not fully grasp what went wrong. If they're still reading I'm going to lay things down:

    1. Do not promise your client a time frame you cannot achieve. Delays in your time frames should be the exception, not the rule. In addition to that, if you're giving other clients a week's turn around but have other overdue clients that have been around for months for the same amount of work, sit yourself down and focus on how to address that. They will notice, and you should notice too.
    2. Apologize to your clients for the delays and acknowledge the delays. You've only apologized for certain behaviors which while good, you still never really acknowledged in any capacity 'I'm overdue and I apologize for that'. Acknowledging the delay sympathetically and neutrally goes a long way in client/artist relationships and creates an environment that says you respect their patronage. They chose to part their hard earned money to you, don't make them feel like they made a mistake.
    3. Don't over-explain. You may feel the impulse to over-explain your situation with the assumption that it'll make people understand better but more often than not it has the opposite effect. It can make the client feel responsible for what's going on in your life which they shouldn't. Humbly admitting a failing and being honest but brief about the issue, is all you need to do. (example, simply stating you're sick vs stating you're sick while proceeding to explain every bit of problem in your life that came from being sick, the client doesn't need to know the details.)
    4. Not having the money to pay back a client is not their fault. You cannot decide to not pay them back just because you don't have the money right then, you cannot yell at them for not having money when you want to pay them back. You have to make yourself a plan to pay them back and then follow through with it.

    And this is less a criticism and moreso advice: You don't have to respond immediately after the client does. If you're going to bed, they can wait till morning for you to reply. (but try to make sure it's not exceeded 72 hours since they contacted you) And please up your prices, you're worth more than what you charge and you'll find your queue much more manageable if you price yourself better.

    You can turn around from this, but it's on you to make these changes, and no, that does not mean you have to fix everything overnight, you just have to set yourself on the path to improvement. Running a business is a learning experience, mistakes happen but only you can fix them.

    17
    • Administrator
    Eden

    Eden 529

    Posted

    • Administrator

    Changed Resolved to Yes

    theodor

    theodor 116

    Posted

    Not sure if it was stated, but if the artists is insisting on a partial refund they absolutely need to provide the sketch to OP, as the partial refund is PAYING FOR said sketch.

    The fact that they are trying to resell OP's 'sketch' is another bad mark against the artist. (Although I agree, it just looks like a random base they made up to fill the lie)

    9
    • Popular Comment
    flucket

    flucket 130

    Posted

    • Popular Comment

    I don't want to repeat anything that anyone else has said, I think armaina's advice post is a good last word and so normally I wouldn't have added anything. I'm just...

    I'm just feeling extremely flabbergasted that there has been literally NO apology for the message from the boyfriend? Am I wrong? I reread through everything twice and I didn't pick it up, can someone direct me to an apology over the boyfriend's actions if there was one? No matter how frustrated, justified or not, I might end up at a client, I would be absolutely fucking mortified if someone close to me spoke to a client that way, and on my own account no less. But it just sort of went completely uncommented upon by the artist? Was there a private apology that wasn't provided in the post?

    The artist seems to be trying to take some kind of measure of responsibility for their actions, but there has been zero mention of any feeling of contrition over their boyfriend using their discord account to speak to Eelowyn in a truly revolting manner. "cant give you the cum out of my balls"? Really? You don't feel the need to offer an apology for that? I don't know if Toasti is still reading these comments, but I can't say I'd ever want to commission anyone who seemed to comfortable and justified in allowing their boyfriend to speak to their paying customers in that way. It's creepy, it's inappropriate, and the lack of any kind of apology is shocking to me.

    Toasti may insist this is an "isolated incident", but I feel doubtful about that considering they confessed straight to Eelowyn at the beginning they had an "angry commissioner causing drama". I imagine if Eelowyn hadn't gone public with this beware and proof of Toasti's actions, they would have been marked down as an angry commissioner causing drama too.

    14
    Scourge

    Scourge 48

    Posted

     

    3 hours ago, flucket said:

    I don't want to repeat anything that anyone else has said, I think armaina's advice post is a good last word and so normally I wouldn't have added anything. I'm just...

    I'm just feeling extremely flabbergasted that there has been literally NO apology for the message from the boyfriend? Am I wrong? I reread through everything twice and I didn't pick it up, can someone direct me to an apology over the boyfriend's actions if there was one? No matter how frustrated, justified or not, I might end up at a client, I would be absolutely fucking mortified if someone close to me spoke to a client that way, and on my own account no less. But it just sort of went completely uncommented upon by the artist? Was there a private apology that wasn't provided in the post?

    The artist seems to be trying to take some kind of measure of responsibility for their actions, but there has been zero mention of any feeling of contrition over their boyfriend using their discord account to speak to Eelowyn in a truly revolting manner. "cant give you the cum out of my balls"? Really? You don't feel the need to offer an apology for that? I don't know if Toasti is still reading these comments, but I can't say I'd ever want to commission anyone who seemed to comfortable and justified in allowing their boyfriend to speak to their paying customers in that way. It's creepy, it's inappropriate, and the lack of any kind of apology is shocking to me.

    Toasti may insist this is an "isolated incident", but I feel doubtful about that considering they confessed straight to Eelowyn at the beginning they had an "angry commissioner causing drama". I imagine if Eelowyn hadn't gone public with this beware and proof of Toasti's actions, they would have been marked down as an angry commissioner causing drama too.

    This is far from an isolated incident. Back when I was in her server she'd complained about this quite a bit. Not too surprising when you have clients waiting a whole year.

    5
    Parasolhyena

    Parasolhyena 13

    Posted

    Oh gosh it's  a little worrisome that it seems like Zuazhes was made one of their art managers. I really hope that they don't act as agressive as they did with you on here. 

    5
    RTKobold

    RTKobold 102

    Posted

    On 10/23/2019 at 10:48 AM, Parasolhyena said:

    Oh gosh it's  a little worrisome that it seems like Zuazhes was made one of their art managers. I really hope that they don't act as agressive as they did with you on here. 

    Wait that's their art manager then no wonder they were so defensive over the beware and made those rude comments. No wonder this beware is well earned if they do that to customer then their reputation is going to be damaging.

    1
    Fawk

    Fawk 20

    Posted

    On 10/23/2019 at 10:48 AM, Parasolhyena said:

    Oh gosh it's  a little worrisome that it seems like Zuazhes was made one of their art managers. I really hope that they don't act as agressive as they did with you on here. 

    Oof, yeah, that is a worrisome addition.

    GeneKruger

    GeneKruger 1

    Posted

    Yeah I just had a pretty similar experience with her. Same dogpiling, same emotional manipulation, same everything. Including making fun of my recently deceased dog. She purged the discord channel most of the dispute happened in, otherwise I'd make my own post here. So this is her on paypal trying to charge back a "refund."

     

    image.thumb.png.28f0d89733246f63595f7ce50be176ee.png

    1
    RTKobold

    RTKobold 102

    Posted

    On 12/30/2020 at 12:19 PM, GeneKruger said:

    Yeah I just had a pretty similar experience with her. Same dogpiling, same emotional manipulation, same everything. Including making fun of my recently deceased dog. She purged the discord channel most of the dispute happened in, otherwise I'd make my own post here. So this is her on paypal trying to charge back a "refund."

     

    image.thumb.png.28f0d89733246f63595f7ce50be176ee.png

    This is quite alarming though you should never close a paypal dispute over excuses like this.

    • Administrator
    Eden

    Eden 529

    Posted

    • Administrator

    A comment was not posted due to multiple violations of our rules:

    1. We do not permit bewares inside the comments.  If you have a beware, please make your own post.
    2. We do not permit personal information to be included on submissions or comments.  Please leave personal details such as what people buy, their illness, or family issues outside the site.
    3. Outside links will be declined.  For archiving purposes, we do not allow people to dump links to information and then leave.  Please host information with us.


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