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  • Beware: Toasti/ Toast435


    Eelowyn
    • Who: Toasti/Toast435
      Where: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/toast435/
      When: 03/30/2019
      What: Commission

      Resolved

    I had worked with this person in the past (like, last few years) on occasional commissions/in stream slots, and had a friendship with them. In march shortly after my birthday they had an emergency chibi sale due to some life issues they were having, so I got a chibi slot. On the journal (which unfortunately was deleted after the fact so I cannot go back to screenshot directly) it was stated that the chibis would be done pretty quickly, if i remember correctly it had either same day or within a week I think?

    It was not mentioned that it was part of a larger queue. Never got any updates or the art piece so after 2 months I asked the first time for an update. Didn't get one and was told they were moving so there was no update.

    So I waited until June... In a Picarto stream i pmed/wisped them directly and asked if they would be working on mine in the stream, they told me they were working on their Trello backlog...I checked out their Trello and my art was nowhere to be found. Mentioned this and they finally added it.

    Waited another 2 months (so August), watching their Trello board, seeing them add new things all the time, and do work on the newly added things, but never any update on mine.

    During this time they were doing in streams constantly, and also trying to advertise to me to buy from them again.

    Confronted them in August that i was uncomfortable with the lack of communication, with things being bumped ahead in the trello que, and that as there had clearly been no update (as I hadn't ever gotten one, and the Trello still had it marked as not started) that I'd like a refund.

    They flipped out, claimed there was actually a sketch done (no proof of one was ever given)

    I asked them to either finish the piece, or refund me as I had been waiting a long time, had been super patient and not pestering for updates.

    They said they would rather refund, and it would take up to a month and that they would turn the supposed sketch into a YCH. Still never showed it to me. I agreed to wait the month.

    I gave them almost 2 months, still nothing but them asking me to wait so they could get their nephew a birthday gift.

    I offered again for them to do a cheaper art piece. this occurred in one of their Picarto streams in a wisp chat so unfortunately I dont have screenshots of this as at that point I wasn't thinking I would have to do a beware, but had offered if it would be easier they could do an in stream sketch instead of the refund as I didn't want to cause financial hardship for them, again they refused. Just to note, the chibi was 20 and the in streams were 16, so i would have been fine accepting lower cost art in place of a refund if it would have been easier for them!

    I confronted her about it last night as I have been super patient, not badgering for updates, and actively trying to work with her on this. As can be seen in the screenshots they flipped out, then had her bf message on her account to insult and be rude AF, and finally she agreed to actually refund me.

    This morning I got an email showing that I was partially refunded because of claiming she started a sketch which honestly, there was never any proof of if and only mentioned after I expressed wanting a refund, so I'm almost entirely certain it was a lie to try to keep the money as on their trello it was clearly marked as not started, had zero updates and even now ive never seen the supposed sketch.

    I attempted to contact her again, expressing that a partial refund was not acceptable, and she had blocked me on Discord so I had to leave a shout on her FA.

    This was a complete disaster of a situation and I wouldnt wish it on anyone. I am still waiting for the other half of my refund but I am skeptical on if they will ever send it.


    I left a shout on their FA, expecting that they finish refunding me. They removed the shout, screenshots to show the new shouts that were posted as well as email I sent after they blocked me.

    After contacting them via email and making it clear I was not just going to drop it and provided the sketch. The sketch provided however, is very clearly NOT my character as it is a generic feline with a small mouth, and long tail. The character requested to have draw is a saber cat, with a nub tail. Sketch is included below to show it is clearly not the character shown in the ref
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    Yikes, the attempt to guilt trip you for asking for your money back is absolutely a beware well warranted.  "Excuse me I'm going to go wash my clothes in the sink".  How... is that your problem?  If the sketch was done, then why not just show it to you??

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    I know right? like I even offered multiple times on Discord and on Picarto, that if they couldnt afford to refund, then they could do an in stream, or just finish the art. Even getting the sketch was a total uphill battle as she blocked me on discord, leaving the only way to contact being FA or email, so I left shouts to try to get the remaining of the refund or the sketch but she just deleted those every time until finally emailing me the sketch
    Like with how vastly different the sketch is from the character, it doesn't even seem to be a sketch of mine at all

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    Please please don't let this go. If you can do a charge back. Their life problems aren't yours. You paid for something and didn't get it.

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    30 minutes ago, Eelowyn said:

    I know right? like I even offered multiple times on Discord and on Picarto, that if they couldnt afford to refund, then they could do an in stream, or just finish the art. Even getting the sketch was a total uphill battle as she blocked me on discord, leaving the only way to contact being FA or email, so I left shouts to try to get the remaining of the refund or the sketch but she just deleted those every time until finally emailing me the sketch
    Like with how vastly different the sketch is from the character, it doesn't even seem to be a sketch of mine at all

    That's sketch looks more like a base to me honestly. But you're right more than likely she just pulled some random art.

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    The attitude, sketch or not was uncalled for, especially towards a paying/regular customer, I hope they don't expect their money/Art Career to be taking off anytime soon if this is how they handle their customers. 

     

    Hope you get your full refund soon, this is awful!

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    Let's count the flags.. 

    1. 'Wahh my PTSD' (hm.. foreshadowing?)
    3. 'Wahhh I'm having a tantrum and attributing it to a manic episode' 
    4. 'It's hard for me to manage the necessary tasks to run my business'
    5. 'Birthday present for my nephew is more important than the money you paid me for a service I never completed' 
    6. Guilt trip : 'let me just refund you with my first-born / soul' 
    7. 'Omg gaslighting me' 
    8. <Lots of insults by the artist and mocking the client>. Always a good method to dealing with clients /s


    Soz but if you have the money to buy presents for people then you've definitely got money to refund. I hate it when artists do that - it basically screams 'you're a low priority right' to their customers. 
    Also, your personal mental health is NEVER a reason to treat customers like this. Every artist I know (myself included) has mental health problems in some capacity. Except, we don't use that as an excuse to steal someone else's hard earned money. That's especially disgusting. If you need to step back from art for health reasons, refund work not started, and be upfront with clients. Don't dick them around and DEFINITELY don't hide behind 'mental health' as an excuse for poor behaviour. 

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    Holy MOLY this one is bad. One of the worst I’ve seen on here, honestly. I am seriously hoping you get your full refund and never have to deal with somebody like this again. 

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    This was an especially frustrating read. The OP was reasonable, flexible and gave ample opportunity to be worked with yet was continuously lambasted by the artist. No check in, no sketch approval, and acting like they being harassed because the OP checked in weeks after hearing nothing. I don't think a partial refund would have been out of the question had any of this been communicated to the OP at all.  (also that's absolutely not what gaslighting is) Putting a lot of inappropriate responsibility on the client, there's a difference between providing an appropriate amount of context for the situation, and dumping every complication you have on the client to guilt them.

    To compound this all, the artist's information on their currant journal boasts a timeframe of:

    Quote

    ETA: 3 Business-Days to 1 Business-Week from sketch-approval but ETA times vary on To-Do List Queue

    I have the distinct feeling the artist just refers to 'but my to-do list' if they don't meet the provided time frame (Which is really short and they shouldn't promise that kind of turn around just in general)

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    I am genuinely appalled and disappointed at seeing this. The language used with the client alone left a terrible taste in my mouth. I understand being so bogged down with work and clients that you need a break...but taking that frustration out on your clients??? 

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    sounds almost exactly like what happened to me. waited 7 plus month for comms i got asked for a refund artisted started crying and got her bf and her ex to come say shit to me and guilt trip me. felt bad heard from someone else that they had the same problem with the artist and i attempeted to get my refund back she had her ex yell at me while i was trying to talk to her artist to commissioner and she handled it immaturely and unprofessionally. i ended up getting my refund and i was made to look like the bad guy even tho i decided against putting a beware on her

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    Definitely if you're able to, contact Paypal or your bank pertaining to the transaction for this. I wondered why I removed this particular artist from my watch list (used to watch them before, but now I don't), and I think it was a situation similar to this, so she may have done this to other people too.

    Edited by VosurAekira

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    Toast has now made an entire journal on fa shaming Eelowyn for the beware and is playing the victim. Yikes definitely will not be comming

    Edited by Arwen
    Phone autocorrected fa to d's

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    So... wait.
    First they don't put you on the queue, a queue you had never seen before. Then they simply ignore your commission in favour for new ones because they need money. They they belittle and insult you when you want a refund after months of waiting. And then they dash out a ..sketch of something that isn't your character.

    Also. Did they say they want to use the sketch as a ych? This would no be okay if they didn't refund you completely. You paid for the sketch, it is yours.

    In general I cannot understand how artists spend the money for a transaction before it is completed and then blame the commissioner if they want their money back. You, as an artist, are entirely at fault for managing your money. If you cannot live from your art, then you have to have a stable job outside of it to support your lifestyle. If it does, be professional and 'work'. Art ist not a hobby anymore once you take money. And that money is only yours after you completed the transaction. Anything else is theft. Really, beware well warrented. I am sorry this happened to you op.

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    I commissioned Toast for over 300$ and never ever had any problems with her.

    You know Toast for quite a time and still decided to commission her.

    I think what you lack is mature communication skills.

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    1 minute ago, Zuazhes said:

    I commissioned Toast for over 300$ and never ever had any problems with her.

    You know Toast for quite a time and still decided to commission her.

    I think what you lack is mature communication skills.

    You having a good experience doesn't negate OP's bad experience.

    While we will be happy to let individuals come and speak about their positive experiences in this thread, bear in mind that when you tell someone they lack "mature communication skills" when the artist made a show of saying "GUESS I NEED TO WASH MY CLOTHES IN THE SINK" it doesn't make the artist look any better.

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    1 minute ago, Celestina said:

    You having a good experience doesn't negate OP's bad experience.

    While we will be happy to let individuals come and speak about their positive experiences in this thread, bear in mind that when you tell someone they lack "mature communication skills" when the artist made a show of saying "GUESS I NEED TO WASH MY CLOTHES IN THE SINK" it doesn't make the artist look any better.

    OP knew of Toast as a person and financial state.

    It does not make the artist look better, but this doesn't make Eelowyn look good either.

    Eelowyn can contact me if they want their 6 to 8$ back so badly

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    36 minutes ago, Zuazhes said:

    I commissioned Toast for over 300$ and never ever had any problems with her.

    You know Toast for quite a time and still decided to commission her.

    I think what you lack is mature communication skills.

    How exactly does knowing the artist for quite a time equate to not receiving work they paid for?

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    Reading the comment section of the journal on FA (which I think should be screenshotted and added to this, really, before it's gone!), Toast is still blaming the OP rather than to accept that all this is entirely their fault and they state that the OP was refunded which isn't completely correct, considering it wasn't a full refund..

     

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    3 hours ago, Zuazhes said:

    OP knew of Toast as a person and financial state.

    It does not make the artist look better, but this doesn't make Eelowyn look good either.

    Eelowyn can contact me if they want their 6 to 8$ back so badly

    Artists are businesses not charity cases. If you can't get an item that at most should be 2 hours of work done in 7 months, then this may not be the field for you. 

    When a client asks for a refund and no work has been shown to them, nor the trello is updated, then all work must stop and a refund should be issued. It's the artist's job to maintain the administrative side of their business or outsource it. Punishing the client for not keeping a trello up to date is unprofessional. This stops being a hobby when you take someone's money whether it be $5, $10, or $1000. 

    Edit: I also want to point out the artist's prices are drastically low along with the discount for a second one. When you're suffering from a queue a mile long and are also trying to survive off of your art it's imperative to raise your prices the highest your market can bear. Not only for the sake of your hands, but also for the sake of your clients. If you can make the same amount taking half of what you normally do, then there's time to chip away at the backlog.

    I get it. Not everyone has the luxury to not spend what they haven't earned. I've been doing commission work for over ten years, and have been there before. However excusing this artist's current behavior doesn't do them any good, and it belittles those of us who strive to offer a good commission experience to our customers.

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    3 hours ago, Zuazhes said:

    OP knew of Toast as a person and financial state.

    It does not make the artist look better, but this doesn't make Eelowyn look good either.

    Eelowyn can contact me if they want their 6 to 8$ back so badly

    The amount is unimportant. So is the financial state. Toast has to deliver either the art or the entire sum as a refund. Simple as that.

    Eelowyn didn't do anything wrong here besides waiting too long before asking for a refund maybe.

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    3 hours ago, Zuazhes said:

    I commissioned Toast for over 300$ and never ever had any problems with her.

    You know Toast for quite a time and still decided to commission her.

    I think what you lack is mature communication skills.

    That’s great. That’s nice. 
    Unfortunately, the OP had a horrible experience with Toast. 
    So, instead of you coming here to fend for them, I would really suggest that Toast come and formulate a meaningful response to the situation. Their side of things, y’know. It might be more helpful than you’re being at the moment. 

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    4 hours ago, Zuazhes said:

    I commissioned Toast for over 300$ and never ever had any problems with her.

    You know Toast for quite a time and still decided to commission her.

    I think what you lack is mature communication skills.

    This was not the first time I had commissioned Toast. I had commissioned her several times over the last few years, I was there to chat when she was down, and helped her with her financial situation several times as well as tried to offer her semi consistent work and we had been friends which is why I only asked about the chibi a couple times, all months after it was commissioned, and usually a month or two between asking about it was well.

    Despite the hundreds of dollars in past commissions and me often going out of my way to help she still:

    -did not do the commission

    -did not even add the piece to Trello until I asked her to

    -attacked me when I asked to cancel as yes, 7 months with zero updates while seeing her add and complete other art works on her trello

    -turn down the multiple times I offered for her to finish the art, or even do am easier or lower value art as I didn't want to cause her financial hardship

    -sent her bf/partner to insult and attack me over her lack

    -block me so I couldn't contact her directly about the remaining refund after she claimed a sketch I had never seen proof of, therefore giving me no choice but to  post a public about

    -finally show the "sketch" and have it be litterally not even my character.

     

    Sorry but perhaps you should read the details that have proof instead of just white knighting for her.

     

     

     

     

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    4 hours ago, Zuazhes said:

    OP knew of Toast as a person and financial state.

    It does not make the artist look better, but this doesn't make Eelowyn look good either.

    Eelowyn can contact me if they want their 6 to 8$ back so badly

    Nope nope nope. Toast financial status means nothing here and it's irrelevant. Toast herself admits that some of her commissions are at least a year old. That's far passed UNACCEPTABLE. Then looking at her FA one can see that's she's constantly taking more and more work putting herself further in a hole. That's all on Toast and no one else. 

    As for the knowing her as a person that doesn't matter either. This was a business transaction not a donation friendship means nothing at that point. I have artist friends I commission too, but they know to separate business from friendship. Also they would be owed $10.

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