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  • Artist Caution: NekoArt

    ShirShir

    By ShirShir

      • Who: NekoArt
      Where: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/nekoart
      When: 02/15/2019
      What: Commission
      NSFW Content Resolved

    TL;DR: I commissioned an icon. It had a couple things that were wrong and it wasnt up to par to her examples. After agreeing to redo it, she hasn't responded to any of my messages. She has been online posting that she is open for more commissions, but has yet to reply to me over several months.
    ----------------------------
    Detailed version:
    Back in Feburary 15th, I commissioned NekoArt for an icon after she had posted opening for commissions to pay for some things.

    image.png.0733a0225f19a1918205cebf4959f851.png

    image.png.ef1c3f9c91b0f5d44259870ab1743dc3.png

    ($35 in USD)

    image.thumb.png.52d4eea7d91208f2130d5bf33db2af54.png

    A few days later, she sent me the commission, but there were a couple things wrong (long eyelashes, no horns, ears going down instead of to the side). She never sent me a WIP so I never had the chance to correct them. They replied saying they'll fix it, and this was the last I heard of her (Feb 25th).
    Later I also realized the quality didn't match those of her other icon examples

    No photo description available.

    Image may contain: text

    2 months go by and I haven't heard anything, so I sent a new note on April. No reply, then one in August and one in October. None of them were opened. I emailed their paypal email back in August.

    No photo description available.

    Image may contain: text

    I messaged her through telegram, which says she was last online in September.

    Image may contain: flower, text and nature

    She has posted on another website just last month that she is opened for commissions (this was translated in chrome, so its a little rough). She has also posted a couple of times on her Tumblr in June, confirming she has been online.

    Image may contain: text

    No photo description available.

     

     

     

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    • Administrator
    Eden
    • Administrator

    Heyo OP, while this was approved as a beware because she agreed to do changes and is now ignoring you.  The quality looks the same to multiple mods, so we didn't approve it on that account.

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    • Senior Staff
    armaina
    • Senior Staff

    This is one of those cases where the problems could have been avoided entirely had a sketch phase been shown ahead of time, the price paid is about 35$ USD so I feel it would have been something worth ensuring there was at least one preview step before completion. (I'd probably have misinterpreted the ears as well, but that's what WIPs are for!!)

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    LorelTheBison

    After searching for your refsheet and comparing the icon with it, I see quite a few colour mistakes there, too, which I would have minded if I were you.. But apart from that, honestly, it could be a completely different character. With the shape of the face different, the downsized eyes, the missing horns and the different ears..

    And the quality is not the same as in the other pictures. If you draw something traditionally, you have to be completely and entirely sure to check with the customer if you can match the needed colours and absolutely NEED to send a sketch since you cannot make changes like you do in digital form. Sorry but I myself would probably ask them to redo it entirely.

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    Rendrassa

    The qualities look the same, but the style of your icon is vastly different from the other two. Really can't imagine not giving a sketch WIP, especially for traditional.

    3
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    sbneko
    49 minutes ago, Rendrassa said:

    The qualities look the same, but the style of your icon is vastly different from the other two. Really can't imagine not giving a sketch WIP, especially for traditional.

    Just to be fair, the references from the client is that style, so that'd be why it looks different. 

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    • Senior Staff
    baja
    • Senior Staff

    I do have some questions regarding your end of the transaction here...
    Are you requesting a full refund for this commission, or just a partial one at a loss?

    Looking at the references, it is very plain to see what was missed, but it does read as your character to me when I compare the references.

    With that said, why did you provide two different references of your character? Looking at the refs, the colors and proportions of key elements you make note of are rather different between both refs. Its difficult to discern the proper color palette to be followed, the shape of the ears and how much space their chest fluff is supposed to cover.

    Depending on which ref the artist chose to follow, it is easy to see where things may have been misunderstood from their end. They absolutely should have provided you with a WIP before completing the work, but I feel like this is where you made a misstep in the commission process.

    I would also take note that English is not this artist's first language, which makes it all the more important to be clear on certain aspects of your character's design that you deem absolutely essential to their portrayal.

    I speak from experience from my first posted beware, where I completely fudged it up on my end by doing just that; conflicting refs & not being clear whatsoever on key deets.

    Not a happy situation on that one either. I personally let it go as a loss to myself, and I would recommend the same in all honesty.

    I don't think you're entitled to a full refund, as the services were fully rendered from the Artist's end.

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    Vashaa
    3 hours ago, Rendrassa said:

    The qualities look the same, but the style of your icon is vastly different from the other two. Really can't imagine not giving a sketch WIP, especially for traditional.

    This is what I also noticed. If I'd see especially that on the right and got what op got, then I would also ask why. I also noticed that the artist apparently didn't have all the colours for this character.
    I cannot understand how you wouldn't send a wip, especially for a traditional piece that you can't edit that easily (or at all.) And I can't stress this enough: If you have trouble with a character, or questions or are unsure about details, since there obviously was confusion, the character looks different, ask.

    Nothing though excuses the lack on contact and them ignoring you. I think this could have been handled with a few minor edits maybe, like adding horns, changing eye colour a bit, etc. Unfortunate.

     

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    LadyKurai

    Quality looks about the same to me, it's always hard to compare existing animals in a semi realistic style to made up creatures. I'm pretty sure I would have messed this up aswell, many of the areas the artist got wrong don't look entirely clear to me. The horns kinda read as brown dots (maybe markings) in the hair so unless the artist went to hunt for more reference pictures in your gallery that could be an issue.

    I would suggest to be specific with the areas artists typically get wrong and/or mention the species somewhere on the page to avoid future headache.
     

     

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    • Administrator
    Eden
    • Administrator
    4 hours ago, LadyKurai said:

    Quality looks about the same to me, it's always hard to compare existing animals in a semi realistic style to made up creatures. I'm pretty sure I would have messed this up aswell, many of the areas the artist got wrong don't look entirely clear to me. The horns kinda read as brown dots (maybe markings) in the hair so unless the artist went to hunt for more reference pictures in your gallery that could be an issue.

    I would suggest to be specific with the areas artists typically get wrong and/or mention the species somewhere on the page to avoid future headache.
     

     

    I said something similar in the mod chat. The ears I know I would have done like a lop bunny. It really needs a note on the ref, because it's a very common way to do ears.

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    ShirShir

    I'm not talking about /style/ difference, im mostly pointing out the detail in the lineart, more notably seen in the chest fluff where it's just plain lines, whereas the others look more sketchy.
    It's more detailed in the examples, whereas mine was more simple and felt more rushed.

    As for my ref, since then I have updated my refs to be more clear. But all of those couldve been avoided had she just sent me a WIP beforehand. I was working on my cleaner ref at the time, so I was working with what I had since she needed the money for something important and I wanted to help out.

    Yes, I would prefer a full refund at this point, because it does not look like my character, and she is deliberately ignoring me for months while opening commissions elsewhere. 


    Also my bad on the nsfw thing! I have other tumblr posts it can be replaced with, i mostly just saw it as artistic nudity and forgot

    Edited by ShirShir
    typo
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    fukui

    sadly I saw this and to be honestly the terms were agreed ahead of time and now she forces a refund because they wanted to force a higher quality for a cheaper price and they even refunded so now they have the money back and free art seems like art theft to me

    Edited by fukui
    incomplete
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    LorelTheBison
    59 minutes ago, fukui said:

    sadly I saw this and to be honestly the terms were agreed ahead of time and now she forces a refund because they wanted to force a higher quality for a cheaper price and they even refunded so now they have the money back and free art seems like art theft to me

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the fact alone that the artist didn't hand over a sketch for a traditional piece, ending up drawing a picture that doesn't fit the character design is just and only their own fault. This has nothing to do with art theft.

    OP did NOT agree to get a drawing that is basically useless for them. Who on Earth would do that anyway?

    And since you cannot fix a traditional drawing (at least not properly), a refund is basically the only way out unless the artist is willing to redraw the entire thing.

    8
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    ShirShir
    7 hours ago, fukui said:

    sadly I saw this and to be honestly the terms were agreed ahead of time and now she forces a refund because they wanted to force a higher quality for a cheaper price and they even refunded so now they have the money back and free art seems like art theft to me

    what terms? there were no terms. the only thing agreed upon was that i paid them for a commission. its not about getting a higher quality, it about getting it to even match the character

    im not keeping the art she drew because it doesnt even look like my character, theres no free art here

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    ShirShir

    Also an update: She finally sent me a refund.
    I commented on her VK post (the one in the beware with the cat) and her wall.

    I really wanted to avoid having to call her out on her own walls, but several other means of communication throughout the months went ignored, and this was the only way she got to reply to me..

    As of now, these comments have been deleted. Even the comment above mine, which was just informing others that she was being active on another site
    75464411_616583945548884_5611463136881147904_n.jpg.c9b7552593ae10167dd52815055ed1d1.jpg74398813_621034391770506_1061114444056100864_o.thumb.jpg.1d01dcfb6245ffd011935ef0df9df463.jpg

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    • Senior Staff
    armaina
    • Senior Staff

    Personally, I am of the mind that this should not have been refunded in full. An edit with the addition of the horns, yes. Possibly a partial refund at most, but not a full refund.

    The quality is not that far off from the other images so there is no problem with the grievance there. The difference in style is deceptive and makes one assume that the quality is different but it's the same. The artist clearly favors more semi-realistic and real stylized looks. The hair in the image has the strongest indication of the artist usual rendering, which would not have worked if applied to the rest of the body. And the slight wispy lining you see in the two examples would also not have worked if applied to the very specific stylization present in the OP's character. There is also rendering on the chest floof which you can see if you don't have a washed out or otherwise too-bright monitor. If anything, it seems the artist may have had some difficulty adapting to the very stylized and over-large eyed look of the OP's character. At worst the artist misjudged their ability to pull off the look when agreeing to take on the commission.

    As I stated before, the worst of this boils down to not sending the OP any WIP or making any indication that the commission in question would not have any form of WIP. But even with that in mind, receiving a full refund over such minor errors feels more like robbery at this point.

    A note for future reference, not just in this case specifically, but any other, if you're about to commission an artist you see something very specific in an artist's gallery you would like them to emulate in a commission of yours, point out that specific piece to them and express this. You know your refs, you know what to look for, all artists do not have the same 'short hand' for rendering textures and render types and will not always interpret it the way you may have imagined it in your head. Pointing out something explicit 'This character's look is really close to how I'd like mine to look' or 'the way you did this short fur on this would be perfect', at the start of the commission can bridge some of gaps of misinterpretation. (and yes WIP will always fix a lot of this but, pointing out stuff like this can still help)

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    ShirShir

    Again, literally /all/ of that couldve been avoided if she sent a WIP, which is completely on her.
    Lots of people ive commissioned change the character into their style. If she had an issue with it, she could have said so. we couldve talked about it during a WIP.

    I also already brought this up in an earlier comment.

    On 11/8/2019 at 1:36 PM, ShirShir said:

    I'm not talking about /style/ difference, im mostly pointing out the detail in the lineart, more notably seen in the chest fluff where it's just plain lines, whereas the others look more sketchy.
    It's more detailed in the examples, whereas mine was more simple and felt more rushed.

    I honestly wouldnt have even cared as much about this part if she still made it match my character.

    If you went to a restaurant and ordered a sandwich, but they brought you a salad, it wouldnt be fair if they still made you pay for it, right?
    Why would it be fair for me to only receive a partial refund if its not right? Im not keeping the drawing, so im not getting anything free out of it

    Edited by ShirShir
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    fukui
    17 hours ago, ShirShir said:

    what terms? there were no terms. the only thing agreed upon was that i paid them for a commission. its not about getting a higher quality, it about getting it to even match the character

    im not keeping the art she drew because it doesnt even look like my character, theres no free art here

    oh okay seems ive misunderstood the situation hope it gets resolved then 

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    Fawk

    I disagree with any comments saying they should have only gotten a partial refund. The artist made the mistake in not making the art look like the character, the artist made the mistake of not showing WIP to confirm details before proceeding, the artist was the one who ended up creating something that wasn't what was ordered. The customer shouldn't have to pay anything for a piece of art that has so many mistakes it isn't even their character anymore.

    As for the quality issue, It might just be the artist being a little uncertain on how to do details on a more cartoony piece. It is hard to compare art drawn in different styles, even if it is drawn by the same artist. The more I look at the images the more I can't decide whether or not I see a quality difference. Seems every time I look I change my mind again. 

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