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  • Caution: Sweet Berry/ponsex


    EnderPon
    • Who: Sweet Berry/ponsex
      Where: Discord: Сладкий Кекс#1745
      FurAffinity: The1AN1
      DeviantArt: 1AN1
      Tumblr: kiyu-123
      Twitter: LambiBelle
      When: 03/21/2020
      What: Commission
      NSFW Content

    I bought a slot for an M/F explicit piece, and I bought the female slot. The pose leaves ambiguous penetration, so the bottom slot could very easily be make if a dick is drawn on the character. I buy the slot, the artist (ponsex) messages me, and I send them the ref of the character. I send them the nsfw reference, which shows clearly visible female bits, and as all my other YCH experiences have gone, I expect to be asked if they have any questions about things like outfits, color, edits like cum, internal shot, etc, but for the most part its straightforward.

    1167648776_CaiyaRefNSFWbyBeardie.thumb.png.972b0dbd512e7bed7e9b73727fa95600.png

    846128659_SweetBerryScreenshotAuction1.png.f5d80b869947d0394746bc9dfeb998f1.thumb.png.08140e75fd91713fb4c69b0749e88099.png

    1228008187_SweetBerryScreenshotAuction2.png.32a90b37a2a7d2f4cf30f8f8050fbe20.png.833f990ff544927cbb885b0c36835d45.png

    747885838_SweetBerryScreenshotPayment.png.591cc63bdec4ed4dbce85a23675ad438.png.24d26df1a9348117052c9af5a86c5b0f.png

    Fast forward to yesterday, I get a completed picture of the image, and I have four versions in total: an M/F version, cum and non-cum, and an M/M version, cum and non-cum. I never asked for my character Caiya to have a male edit. The sketch had included a penis in the case that the second slot was male, but as per the reference, it is very clear that the character is female. I feel like the fact that something as major as the gender of the character being changed without my permission is a major betrayal of trust on the artist's part, and even though the original version was completed as requested, the edit should not have been made at all.

    This character specifically has a backstory as surviving domestic abuse, and a major part of her character is being a strong, tough female. I know there are a lot of users (including me) who relate strongly and on a personal level to their characters, and that can include self-identification such as being trans. I talked to a lot of other people and they agreed that especially for certain characters they own, they would be just as livid seeing their character in a gender they are not supposed to be/they don't identify as.

    My major problem is how dismissive and unaware they are of the problem, if not to the point of rude. They do not seem to understand that this is not okay, and whether its the easy way or the hard way, all I want them to understand is how big of an issue this is. If this is how they react to this kind of issue, they don't deserve further business if this is their attitude.

    The screenshots are below (read from the very bottom up):

    1828916950_SweetBerryScreenshot2.thumb.png.ff74a5c06e8105cf3110cf703f886a33.png

    531194482_SweetBerryScreenshot1.thumb.png.c1a74de6b4cb00b868b3750d939b8587.png

    1654629346_SweetBerryScreenshot3.png.573d86dbebf55726f9488614675b1f98.thumb.png.72d5164c45374800079c8b5a47b1d873.png



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    While I think it's strange and a bit off that they did two versions when your character is clearly female, I feel like you're being pretty precious about it. 

    You got the art you paid for (M/F version), if I read correctly - you can just post / enjoy that. Personally I would have requested they not post the M/M one but you went straight in with the 'you will not post this version'. And then you came back with 'Send me the M/M version' (no please or thank you?). 

    Weird that you want the version of art that you complained about. You're the one that comes off as rude in this post, not them. 

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    This is weird as heck.  If it were a mistake, I could understand.  But they don't even say they're sorry, and seem to defend the choice?  Why even make more work for yourself?  It just strikes too close to "it'd be better if this was gay" which I used to get all the time if I made art of my spouse and me.

    I'd be just as upset as you are, and wouldn't grovel to have a bastardized version of my character not posted online.  Not sure why you would even want it with you, though.

    Anyway, a caution well warranted.  I wouldn't touch anyone who changes genitalia configurations without my permission with a 10 ft pole.  Fingers crossed that they don't put it on Patreon or anything.  

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    Strange all around. I feel like something is missing here. There's no other context in the images, so it seems a little out of nowhere when on March 21st you suddenly ask if there is a "dick edit". Given the artist is clearly Russian and has a less than great grasp of English , I can't help but feel there may have been something lost in translation here. I can see where "I didn't ask for it, and do not post them, but also send it to me in higher quality" is very confusing to someone who doesn't understand the nuance and emotions behind your writing. Hell, I speak English as my first language and even I'd be confused by that; why do you want a high quality version of an image you want to be completely forgotten?

    Overall, while I'd be miffed if someone took my female character and made a different version of the art with a penis attached, I think this could have ended much better if you had approached it differently. Immediately being aggressive and making demands like telling them that they will enforce your wishes on the other YCH participant... doesn't come across well to me. I mean, after all, the other participant in the YCH did bid on a sketch where the character receiving has a penis, and I'd bet that is probably why the "dick edit" exists. One for you, one for the other bidder, made both versions to satisfy both.

    Not excusing the artist here at all, they absolutely should have asked first, but more just thinking that this could have been handled better by both sides here.

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    Since others seem to be confused as to why someone would want the original of the version you don't want, you use the original image so that you can use image searches to keep track of uploads and move to get those removed on the grounds they're a misrepresentation of the character. It's not fullproof of course, but it provides at least SOME way of doing something about it.

    That being said, a character owner still has a right to the presentation of their character and the right to request a removal if the representation could be misleading, harmful or defame the person involved. The demands are well within the OP's right to do and I do not think they're unreasonable. The artist should have asked if an M/M version was wanted in the first place. It does not matter if the other client wanted one, both parties must consent to it.

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    3 hours ago, armaina said:

    you use the original image so that you can use image searches to keep track of uploads

    Wouldn't you also find uploads with the "attachment" searching with the correct one?

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    Pay attention that the conversation begins from the last picture in the post, to the first, and not the other way around.

    This conversation is quite confusing to me as well. Like others, I feel that some parts of the convo are missing, and even with that, the artist treated the situation normally from the screenshots you provided, while you sounded quite threatening with your messages.

    For someone that their first language isn't English, I could easily get confused by what you demanded (not from the reference picture, but actually from your message). You asked if there's going to be a male part edit for the character, which what might've confused the artist and made them think you'd like them to draw a male part for your character. (You asked them because of the preview image of the YCH, I understand, and the artist should've asked too - at same time they might've thought they knew what they're doing after that question was made.). The issue here comes from both parts. I highly doubt the artist meant to cause you harm personally by 'deciding' to change your character's parts, but rather a big misunderstanding in the language. In the end the artist provided you everything you asked without arguing or a problematic behavior, and didn't go against your wishes after. I'd consider talking to artists differently, even when mistakes are made - not jump into conclusions that the artist did such thing to personally hurt you.

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    21 hours ago, LadyKurai said:

    Wouldn't you also find uploads with the "attachment" searching with the correct one?

    SauceNao requires direct upload of the image in order to search for it. Tineye and Google Images may let you link a URL but the URL has to exist somewhere in the first place, and can't be private, for you to even link it, otherwise, you have to upload an image for it to search. (and even if that VK url worked, the OP would still need that URL in order to use it. )

    Everyone so far has seemed to miss that the OP asks for the URL to the M/M version as the very last thing, and the Artist ignored literally everything else stated only saying 'I made a choice'. Even accounting for English as a Second Language, there's not even any sort of attempt to clarify or reconcile on the artist's part, and it's clear enough that the artist understands English well enough to say that. None of the mods here feel the OP is wrong in this regard, to be upset about an m/m piece being made when it wasn't even asked about in the design process and the advertisement itself doesn't state that there will be two versions no matter what.

    It wasn't advertised and the artist did nothing to reconcile when it was brought up, that's worthy of exercising caution for any like commissions with this artist, that you may need to clarify anything you don't want, before the work starts. Otherwise you could get something you don't and the artist will do nothing about it.

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    Oh that's really weird, like I'd be mad too if someone changed my character's gender. I wonder if they make a M/M version for every artwork they do or if this was a one time thing.

    The only thing I wonder is if the person who bought the other slot was upset because their character wouldn't be with a female character and wanted a m/m version but still that really doesn't excuse changing someone else's character. 

    Like this is full on bizarre. 

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    I'm really confused by this and second the wondering if some of the conversation is missing. What really boggles my mind is reading the post, you state you got a M/F commission, but the screenshot clearly shows a M/M scene. And there's nothing in the screenshots to show you clarified both this change with the artist or specifically requested it only be M/F, but instead only clarify something plainly stated in the auction description. While I understand how upsetting this is, I would HIGHLY suggest that something so important be stated up front in any situation like this, just as you would for key details (markings, jewelry, etc) that you would not want left off the character from the get-go. Should the artist have clarified? Yes. But you should have also made an effort to make it known to the artist that despite bidding on a M/M ych, you did not want any version of that, especially given the other position was also up for auction and the other participant may feel equally as uncomfortable with the scene being changed from M/M to M/F. All parties involved should have communicated better.

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    23 minutes ago, ritualnoise said:

    I'm really confused by this and second the wondering if some of the conversation is missing. What really boggles my mind is reading the post, you state you got a M/F commission, but the screenshot clearly shows a M/M scene. And there's nothing in the screenshots to show you clarified both this change with the artist or specifically requested it only be M/F, but instead only clarify something plainly stated in the auction description. While I understand how upsetting this is, I would HIGHLY suggest that something so important be stated up front in any situation like this, just as you would for key details (markings, jewelry, etc) that you would not want left off the character from the get-go. Should the artist have clarified? Yes. But you should have also made an effort to make it known to the artist that despite bidding on a M/M ych, you did not want any version of that, especially given the other position was also up for auction and the other participant may feel equally as uncomfortable with the scene being changed from M/M to M/F. All parties involved should have communicated better.

    The auction details state "2 char any gender"

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    6 hours ago, ritualnoise said:

    While I understand how upsetting this is, I would HIGHLY suggest that something so important be stated up front in any situation like this, just as you would for key details (markings, jewelry, etc) that you would not want left off the character from the get-go. Should the artist have clarified? Yes. But you should have also made an effort to make it known to the artist that despite bidding on a M/M ych, you did not want any version of that, especially given the other position was also up for auction and the other participant may feel equally as uncomfortable with the scene being changed from M/M to M/F. All parties involved should have communicated better.

    As Celestina already helpfully pointed, the auction specifically stated it was open to any gender. The masculine genitalia was most likely just there as a base or example.

    Personally, it really feels absurd to me that "don't misgender/missex my character" should be counted amongst statements like "don't forget the eye markings" or whatever. I feel like, both within art communities and within larger society, "please don't arbitrarily attach incorrect genitalia onto people" should just be a given, but especially in situations where images of the correct genitalia are right there for reference.

    A penis isn't an artistic decision; it's a whole ass extra piece of anatomy. If I got a commission of my character and it came back with an extra set of arms, and when I explained that actually my character only has two arms, not four, I got told "I made a choice" in return, my response would be "and I made the character, so please fix it or provide a partial refund as this is unusable to me". I wouldn't be like "ah yes I see clearly it was my fault in not properly communicating the correct amount of arms my character has, even though on every reference you were given they only have the two. Certainly I shall take this as a learning experience and be on my way!"

    I don't mean to be rude, but this response just boggles my goggles.

    I get that you made this comment under an incorrect assumption about the details of the auction, but even in the case it was an M/M YCH, speaking from an artist perspective, in the instance someone won an M/M auction off me but sent in a reference for a female character, I would take it upon myself to remind them that the auction was for masculine sex characters, and ask them if they a) wanted a R63 of the character they provided or b) would like to choose a different, male character. I wouldn't look at a female sex reference image for a female identifying character and just "make a choice".

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    On 3/27/2020 at 3:04 PM, armaina said:

    SauceNao requires direct upload of the image in order to search for it. Tineye and Google Images may let you link a URL but the URL has to exist somewhere in the first place, and can't be private, for you to even link it, otherwise, you have to upload an image for it to search. (and even if that VK url worked, the OP would still need that URL in order to use it. )

    Everyone so far has seemed to miss that the OP asks for the URL to the M/M version as the very last thing, and the Artist ignored literally everything else stated only saying 'I made a choice'. Even accounting for English as a Second Language, there's not even any sort of attempt to clarify or reconcile on the artist's part, and it's clear enough that the artist understands English well enough to say that. None of the mods here feel the OP is wrong in this regard, to be upset about an m/m piece being made when it wasn't even asked about in the design process and the advertisement itself doesn't state that there will be two versions no matter what.

    It wasn't advertised and the artist did nothing to reconcile when it was brought up, that's worthy of exercising caution for any like commissions with this artist, that you may need to clarify anything you don't want, before the work starts. Otherwise you could get something you don't and the artist will do nothing about it.

    I think their point was that the M/F version is so close to the M/M version that a bot wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two. So you could use the M/F version to search for M/M uploads too.

    As for the rest of it... I mean, what is the artist supposed to say? Maybe they understand enough english to get that OP is upset but they don't have the ability to correctly word a defense. I personally found OP's replies extremely confusing at first (the whole rule 63/34/whatever made it much worse) and then afterward when they clarified, there's really nothing else to say. OP says don't use the image and I'm not happy. The artist pretty much can either go into an argument defending their actions or just say "okay" at that point.

    Edited by Bornes

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    1 minute ago, Bornes said:

    As for the rest of it... I mean, what is the artist supposed to say? Maybe they understand enough english to get that OP is upset but they don't have the ability to correct word a defense. I personally found OP's replies extremely confusing at first (the whole rule 63/34/whatever made it much worse) and then afterward when they clarified, there's really nothing else to say. OP says don't use the image and I'm not happy. You pretty much either go into an argument defending your actions or just say "okay" at that point.

    you apologize and assure the client the m/m version won't be posted instead of saying 'good luck'

    And all that is wholly ignoring the fact that the artist should have asked about other versions before even creating it in the first place. English as a second language doesn't suddenly make it impossible for you to tell that the ref sheet you were provided doesn't have a dick.

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    Lack of english skill commonly comes across as rude.


    We'll never know what the artist actually thinks unless someone who's russian can talk to them about it.

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    On 3/27/2020 at 8:04 PM, armaina said:

    SauceNao requires direct upload of the image in order to search for it. Tineye and Google Images may let you link a URL but the URL has to exist somewhere in the first place, and can't be private, for you to even link it, otherwise, you have to upload an image for it to search. (and even if that VK url worked, the OP would still need that URL in order to use it. )

    Oh I had no idea there was a tool for this!

    Thanks for clarifying!

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    On 3/30/2020 at 4:21 AM, Bornes said:

    I think their point was that the M/F version is so close to the M/M version that a bot wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two. So you could use the M/F version to search for M/M uploads too.
     

    Sorry for two replies in a row, but I can't edit the other one anymore.

    That is precisely what I meant. I'm not sure how the search engine actually works and if it compares every single pixel, but I assume it would find both versions.

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