Beware: Lemonbrat

thats fine, but the issue only cropped up recently they state on twitter and in gofund me the problem occured in 2018.

I would also like to add, with the excuse about that type of fur material.

I looked at the twitter post about this suit, and someone posted a suit they have made from the same/similar material. It looks good and not super wrinkly, NOTHING to the degree of awful that this suit is.

I really feel I should point this out and say it's not the material, this is overall just bad quality.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Celestina
Fixing font color and making link clickable.

3 hours ago, carbide said:

thats fine, but the issue only cropped up recently they state on twitter and in gofund me the problem occured in 2018.

The issue only "cropped up recently" because that's when the suit actually was being made and they began receiving photos. Their concern about the wrong head base being used should have absolutely been taken seriously. Ignoring the other issues, that is not the correct species whatsoever and doesn't look anything like a feline. They brought this issue up and were brushed aside and told it'd look like a cat when furred (which it doesn't). 

ITT: People defending awful work.

Also, I thought this part of Lemonbrat's defense was pretty funny:

Quote

We feel the suit is up to our standards, and was made by team members who have been designing and sewing for us for 4 years

Sorry, what? If this is what Lemonbrat considers an average sample of their suits, then I dread to think what they would consider a 'botched' suit. Because this is a budget suit AT BEST. Not worth 3.6k.

The head looks nothing like a feline base and as 'professionals' Lemonbrat should have known that fur would not magically make the head into a feline's. This one spins me out a bit because it's so obvious.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Xaila
Was good without the last bit.

Hi, there I just wanted to say as this is important, the post that lemonbrat made about me saying the head was awesome was in reference to attached images of the NEW head, the images in the email repsonse were of the old head, and this has been taken out of context.

A lot of the things they have said in there response are untrue, and they've also 'picked and chosen' parts of my emails and tried to twist the context. 

They have sent me a nasty email this morning, probably in response to this thread.  I will be posting the full email with response as it points out also the inaccuracies in their statement.  I did offer a DTD the same week as I sent the measurements and there email person / maker said that "they no longer needed them and it wasn't nessasery" and refused to take a DTD in parts or in whole.

I will provide lemonbrat's email response here.   Apologies for the length of this post in advance. 
I am sorry that I used profinaty in my response to them, but it was out of complete shock at the suit, not in anger.  I was not wishing any harm upon them whatsoever.  They'd only sent me images of the paws, tail and  head.  I had been polite and patient with them up until this point.  And the new head they sent me a close up side-shot.   So I really couldn't see it all that well and it looked great from what I could see of it. 

Here is there email, and my response.   

***

Lemonbrat Inc, I will respond to your points below.  Your points will be in italic font.

Dear Camaro, 

I’m sorry that you are dissatisfied with your fursuit. We have provided you with the same high-quality construction that we provide to all our customers. 

 

I really don't believe that as several people on twitter, telegram, discord and artist beware have pointed out, you're premades are a lot better quality, and you're quality has

been rapidly deterioraing over the years.      Previous customers of yours are coming to me with support, and tell me they'll never buy from you again, even at your stalls at conventions.

 

We would appreciate if you would stop trying to read “in-between the lines” of our emails, as we only mean exactly what we are saying. You have jumped to a few conclusions based on speculations, which isn’t helpful for anyone and seems to be causing you more stress that is necessary. 

 

Any "suspcions" I've had, have been echoed by other people, I show them your emails and photos, and they come to the same conclusion without my influence.   So I really don't know what to say here.    Maybe you are right and the 200 people in my friend's discord are all wrong.

 

Your suit has been made in a timely manner. According to our email record, we provided you fur samples on May 5th, and in the proceeding, days had a number of exchanges asking questions about the details of your order. Mid-May is thus when we began the construction process. It is from that point that the designer started to pattern and design components. She was slowed by having to discuss a number of details with you because the main reference material was not exact to what was ultimately selected. For example; the addition of black ear tips, paw pads, and claws, etc that are not shown on the main reference image.

 

If construction began in Mid-May that's just even more embarrassing that the suit turned out so rushed looking, and you say later in your email the person emailing me, and the person working

on my suit were two different people but above you said the 'maker' was slowed by discussing details with me?    I gave you four reference images, and explained back in October/November when I first ordered the suit, in fact I think it was even on the ORDER FORM about the black tips on the ears, so that is complete bullshit.   I sent you four references images. 3 of those images had black tips on the ears! You can't blame me for any delays of details that were stated on the order form and initial emails sent to you when the suit was ordered.

 

Claiming that we “only started a month ago” is inaccurate. I understand that you don’t see our day-to-day workflow. By the time we are sending images of a carved head and sewn together components, there has been A LOT of patterning and development. We simply cannot show WIPS of every single second of production.

 

It was your STAFF that LED me to believe the suit construction started only a month ago.   So if you started sooner, then that's not my issue. It's a communication fault (which you already partly admitted to) by your trainee person on the email system. 

 

You seem to be confused that the person who answers the emails is the same who carves heads / does other design work.

I'm not the one confused about this, above you stated they were the same person, that the maker was in communication with me?

 

We would like to clarify that the designer and seamstress working on the costume have spent 4 years with this company and are certainly not inexperienced. The most “green” person on the team is the one who was initially answering your emails who has been on the team for more than a year at this point.

 

If this is true, that's embarrassing.   If my company made me rush a product so much it looked really bad that would crush my spirit, I feel really bad for your seamstress right now.

 

Every time you have responded to our WIPS with displeasure, we have responded within a day or two, offered corrections, and then made those corrections in order to meet your specifications. We have re-carved a head, remade a tail, made adjustments to the bust, remade the ears - all to try to achieve your vision as it changed throughout the process. When you responded saying you did not like the zipper and tail installation we also, immediately responded and offered to make adjustments.

 

You didn't make 'adjustments' in my view, you 'corrected' really horrible mistakes.   How do you explain making a mouse head for anthroporphic cat?

The head should have been done from scratch, your adjustments made the head look wierd around the nose and mouth.   But I was happy with that,

then I saw the huge seem on the back.    My fursuit looks like it had an autopsy for god sake!

 

On April 1st you told us you were, “having trouble finding someone to do the DCD [sic] with me would something like [provided measurements] be okay?”. We agreed to accept the measurements with the caveat that we cannot guarantee exact fit. This was explained to you on April 2nd, which you agreed to. Your DTD would have been draped as soon as it came in, we could have easily started when you hit your 75% payment mark in February if we had had it. However, having to work with measurements is a much trickier process that has to be specially done by our top designer.

 

Also, you waffled several times on how you wanted the bust to be made, from “speedbump” at the beginning, to two breasts (see your July 2nd email), to wanting the speedbump again on July 19th which caused us to have to pull the bodysuit from production in order to comply with the requested adjustment.

 

This is not true, I asked for a speedbump and your Email person/ designer whatever they are, you can't seem to decide, said they could do breasts too.  I asked for some time to think the options over and asked for speed bumps, so this is completely false. I have said not once, not twice, but three times that breasts would be UNSUITABLE FOR A CONVENTION AREA but your designer kept trying to push them on me.    SOME CONVENTIONS HAVE BANNED THEM OUTRIGHT.

 

I explained to your maker that I would provide measurements and send the DTD the next week, as I had someone to help me, oddly enough you left that out of your point, even though it was sent only a couple days later.  

 

You initially told us you wanted the suit in July for an August due date. It is unfortunate that your suit has run a few days overdue, but it’s extremely hard to keep on-time with so many changes and adjustments.   

 

Again your maker set the deadline for Mid-July, I was happy to wait past EF, maybe until christmas, but your maker or email guy, whatever the hell you want to call him,

set that date not me, a date that you keep implying that I set, that is not true!!   I asked repeatedly between February and April if the deadline was okay, because I could

wait longer, but needed to know in advance because I had to make extra arrangements and pay extra for flight allowance if my suit was going with me.   I asked if possible,

could the suit arrive before August 12, but if not then it would be fine.   So don't put the blame of the deadline on me its something you guys agreed to, and I gave you many opportunities

to extend and you refused.

 

We feel you supplied a reference image that doesn’t match your mental image of the suit but have still held us to the standard of what is in your head. There’s a reason why commissioners (us included) ask for accurate reference images and any specific preferences up-front (as you could have done from day 1 in our quote form) in order to avoid a tremendous amount of edits and back-and-forths in the production process.

 

Again, I put the [intricate] details on the order form, including the ear markings.   You seem to have a serious issue with communication and keeping paperwork in order. 

 

We feel that we have worked very hard on your suit, we have complied with every edit you requested, and are still willing to make the zipper and tail adjustments if you so choose. You are ineligible for a refund. As per our policies, we do not offer refunds on custom items, and that has been the case in our TOS for 4+ years. Time, effort, and money were spent making it, and re-making it to your specifications. Being disappointed with it at this stage and demanding a refund after all this work is placing an unreasonable burden on us as we have worked hard to make a good faith effort to create your fursuit in accordance with your preferences.

 

Would this be the same TOS you changed earlier this year?    The same TOS that changed the 75% mark to 100%  and changed your refund policy to "within reason, minus labor and materials to..."  "No payments shall be refunded" It's not been the same for four years, and your own emails to me proove that.   It's a blatant lie. I have the email that says, and I quote "You will be bound to our old terms, as your suit was paid off before the TOS changed"  my suit was paid of in April, so that means your TOS changed in April 2019, and thus has NOT been the same for the last four years.

 

[ note - was not in email but lemonbrat changed there TOS in 2017 from no refund,  to the policy I saw in 2018, they then changed it back in April? 2019 ]

 

 

Please let us know if you would like the zipper and tail adjustment.

 

 

I am very angry by the attitude and accusations you have made here, I would advise you make the adjustments to the tail and zipper only if it will not damage the suit further.

Because honestly there are a lot of people, who agree that this suit is just embarrassing to your company.   It's gonna hurt your business more than it's going to hurt me.

Once you have finished making mistakes, I would really appreciate my suit being shipped by FedEx International 5-day like you promised.

 

Regards,

Camaro Cougar

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Xaila said:

And that closure is awful on it. It visually looks stapled or tacked on like Eeyore's tail.

The head is rodent and even furred up, it's a rodent with feline coloring. The ears are the worse of it. They are too round and ill-shaped for a feline. They splay out when they really need to point upwards.

These are the parts that stick out to me, because they clearly CAN create a big cat suit that reads as feline. 

12 hours ago, carbide said:

So,

first off, you filed this artist beware dating it 12/12/2018 however your first payment was in december of 2018? you state it was late 2018 that the problems occured, however its only recently that problems have developed

second, you have started a gofund me prior to resolving it with the seller. 

third you understand do to the lion king ref you have to modify the suit due to copyright.

fourth short pile fur is gunna show everything, and depending on body size and type its fitted as close to you as possible.

fifth you are crying foul and rallying people to a cause because you are not happy trying to get a refund and gofund me is a double standard. according to your monthly payments it seems like you had to take time to pay for it then have it rushed for a international con???

sixth before acting like an entitled and expect VIP treatment it seems theyve done theyre best to accommodate you and work with you.

7th the cost of materials has risen so high do to the US's current trade tarrifs that materials ezpecially synth furs are 15-25% higher so its obvious sellers will adjust and protect themselves both in TOS and cost.

ALSO i feel like you are not divulging all the information regarding this issue?

 

 

(Sorry for the edit)
They sent wips, yes, which the commissioner was unhappy with, with them trying to tell him that he should trust them on this and try to invalid his opinions on those changes.
Short fur does not excuse the seams in the middle or the unclean one on the tail, nor the crooked nose and uneven ears and brows.

If the maker wouldn't be able to get the suit ready, in their usual quality for a specific deadline that was stated in the very beginning, then they should decline the commission.

And of course artists/makers have to adjust their prices, but! you cannot say you will not refund in any case. Never, it is illegal to do that.

I feel like you are coming over very aggressively and I wonder why. The quality is the issue here, which is not discussable.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Vashaa

Wow. The images of the head base... that's totally a rodent.  I don't understand what they were thinking there. 

Update:  2nd August 2018.

Lemonbrat have said they are going to make "fixes" to my suit, and have demanded me to confirm my shipping address. 
I have requested them to review the repairs with me before shipping, but I feel they're gonna do these "fixes" in the shadows (if they fix it at all) and send it to me regardless. 

Like, "Here's you suit, frak off, no refund for you" 
I just feel like I've been really horribly treated by lemonbrat in this whole exchange and they've gotten really venomous with me since this thread was posted.   

Everytime I get an email from them it puts me into an Anxiety attack.

Not a fun experience.

Actually I feel like it's gone backwards. 
They didn't tell me what they were fixing they just said they were fixing something, and then shipping it.

I have no idea whats happening.  >.<

Kinda feel like there gonna shove it down my throat regardless of whether its fixed. 
 

They're only fixing the tail, and the zipper.   There not fixing the seems at the rear of the head, or any of the other issues.

Image:

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by camarofurry

I want all the seems fixed, especially on the back and rear of the head, I'd also like the patchwork under the arm to be fixed. 
The tail is way too thick, but they won't fix it. 

I feel like this hasn't been resolved or won't ever be resolved.  They just want to fix the zipper and tail placement and mail it, they're not interested in fixing anything else.

I would rather have a full refund, and no suit, or a 50% refund with the suit. 

The suit is in terrible shape, and I feel it's gonna fall apart really quickly as well.

Edited August 2, 2019 by camarofurry

I have no horse in either of these races, but I've been following along and this is what I see:

The reference images were bad. No doubt about that. Not only are the markings all over the place, but the image where shes on the hood of the car clearly has a lot larger muzzle and larger, curved ears than the more ref sheet design. If you didn't tell me that these are the same character then I wouldn't think they were. I might struggle to say they are the same species.
If they were going more off the second image than the first, I can clearly see why they would use a more mousey base for the head. The ears and muzzle clearly make more sense.
Honestly I would have paid for a professional fursuit ref rather than a normal character ref and some images. The less said about the lion king recolour, the better.

I think there was a big lack of trust on camarofurry's part. From all the emails I have seen and read, little thought is given to compromise or actually working WITH the artist. I know you paid a lot of money, but when you commission another person for something, you need to work with them because, chances are, they know a lot better than you what they are doing. I think jumping to conclusions about the head and tail were big mistakes. The curved one is clearly more optimal for moving about in a real world environment. It might not be as true to the character as you want but, again, you need to make compromises and work with the artist.

I've seen a lot of people say "Why didn't Lemonbrat cancel and refund if they couldn't do it?" but I think thats a bad attitude to have.
I think Lemonbrat was confident that they could deliver what the customer asked for to start, so they agreed. By the time issues in production started cropping up the item was already 100% paid and they had spent work hours and materials on it.
Lemonbrat has people and bills to pay. Its not easy to take a hit of $3600 PLUS cost of materials PLUS cost of paying the artists the hours of work wasted. By the time there were big problems, it was probably a better move financially to push ahead and try to deliver a good product.

Now, the finished suit itself. There are clearly problems with it but I think its less an issue to do with poor quality work and more to do with the materials used.
Lots of words have been typed about the seams and the way the tail is attached. I think we can all agree that such a big tail is going to put strain on that fabric. It needs a firm base to be attached to. It does look bad, I agree, and maybe something can be done to sort it, but I honestly think this was probably the best idea they had at the time. The fact it was being modeled by somebody shorter than the suit was designed for probably didn't help matters either. As the for the seams: They are always going to be here, regardless. The fur just isn't deep pile enough to hide them. I don't really see an issue with either them or the zipper. Its a costume, at the end of the day. Its gonna have seams and honestly I can understand why the zip is so prominent. I don't quite know what the commissioner was expecting zip wise.

I don't think either side is blameless, but I think Lemonbrat was trying their best to work in a hard situation. There are always going to be difficult customers and you do your best to make them happy.
I think there was a big issue of clashing ideas and both sides thought they knew better than the other. I understand why they won't give a refund for the reasons listed above, but I am glad to see they are trying to make fixes to the suit. I'm not sure what resolution would make camarofurry happy as she is clearly not getting her money back, but I hope she at least grows to like the suit once its in her hands despite the bad experience.

 

I'm sorry but it was explained at the time that the first image was a reference for the suit (it was actually a fursuit reference comission) and disney image was a refrence for colour only.   The other two were simply extra images.  

I explained that from the start.    Anything I asked for (lemonbrat calls them last minute changes) were items I asked for back in December 2018 on the order form.   The only change I requested was the eye colour, I asked them to fix the head and tail because they were wrong.   That's all. 
It's really interesting that all the Lemonbrat staff are badmouthing me on twitter and signing up for new accounts on here to try and twist and defame me, and make me seem like I'm in the wrong.  They've done nothing but twist the truth, and censor dates and times on the email grabs. 

They've been venomous to me, and there downright harrassing me on twitter now by making false allegations, and making me out to be a "nightmare customer" I am recieveing hate comments, (albeit in the minority) because no-one is actually buying your stories, but I am getting hate comments none the less.
 

I shouldn't be getting bullied for posting an artists beware, I felt I had the right to post this, and I shouldn't be getting harrassed for it.   And I'm sorry but Lemonbrat's cost of making the fursuit is included in the 3600$ price.   That's how profits work.  

 

[edit]  An in addition to the conflicting reference images, Lemonbrat promised to make a sketch of how they wanted the suit to look before manufacturing it,  almost 10 months later, I still haven't gotten that sketch.  They were supposed to use that and work with me with the design.   It's hard to work with an artist when they leave a fullsuit construction to 30 days before deadline.  And only start on the main parts 2 weeks after shipping was supposed to happen.

Edited August 2, 2019 by camarofurry

5 minutes ago, camarofurry said:

It's really interesting that all the Lemonbrat staff are badmouthing me on twitter and signing up for new accounts on here to try and twist and defame me, and make me seem like I'm in the wrong.  They've done nothing but twist the truth, and censor dates and times on the email grabs. 

They've been venomous to me, and there downright harrassing me on twitter now by making false allegations, and making me out to be a "nightmare customer" I am recieveing hate comments, (albeit in the minority) because no-one is actually buying your stories, but I am getting hate comments none the less.

I'm sorry to burst your conspiracy theory bubble, but I'm not a member of Lemonbrat staff. I'm not even American. I'm just a dude who read though the info. (I see what Lemonbrat meant by you trying to "read between the lines).
I can tell you right now, you are a nightmare customer. I've seen the emails, and you don't exactly come out smelling like roses in them.
The reason you are being "Bullied" (if you want to call it that) is because you have been unreasonable since the story broke. Within 20 hours you had a gofundme going and have been milking the situation for attention ever since. In their final email to you, Lemonbrat was more than reasonable and laid out all the issues they had with you (while providing evidence in their full reply). You rebutted it but without supplying evidence. Right now your side of the story is looking flimsier and flimsier, especially since they have offered to edit the suit. The emails where you offer to send the DTD but they refused have yet to surface.
The only REALLY valid complaint is that the tail on the suit looks bad. Everything else is just heavily opinionated hearsay.