Good day to you all.
Small notice - As requested by moderation staff from the original post I have removed a number of screenshots with just plain conversation not quite pertaining to the topic of the commission. But showed a regular source of contact for some of this situation with the artist in question.
I am rather upset the situation has come to this. But here goes in as concise and explanatory a situation as possible.
This would be my second commission from QWERTYDRAGON aka Xubuntu. With my first having been a successful piece commissioned from them in January of 2019. They completed this commission on time and to a high degree of quality. Thus as you will see from the posted discord screenshots we had a conversation about a Mecha-Dragon version of the Red Dragon character of mine - Rakarth Cinderscorn. A price was agreed and set to be paid for. Months went by, with a initial sketch being provided by the artist as you will see in one of the screenshots. From then on, time went by with regular communication going on between myself and said artist. As it came to the later part of the year - I asked for deadlines that could be set for the art to be completed (With myself under the belief it was in progress and being worked on).
The first of these was around my Birthday in the July period, and the second was in the month involving Halloween. Both of these deadlines were missed and multiple attempts at communication were attempted. Not only via discord which was the preferred medium of contact. Multiple emails were sent to their direct business address which they confirmed they had received and yet hadn't answered because 'I just get lazy sometimes'.
I have attempted to contact Paypal for a resolution, which has been denied given the time-frame involved. This was an individual I believed I could trust, they do make quality artwork for sure. But their focus it seems had turned to completing other newer commissions and a Patreon of specified artwork which you can search based upon their name Xubuntu / Qwertydragon (Their artist alias, Real name is unknown and censored for site reasons).
I would like to make sure no one else ever has to go through such an experience with said artist, nor ends up waiting for inordinate amounts of time. Nor losing out on the costs of said artwork. For me the cost is the lesser of the two lossess here.
Sincerely recorded,
Rakarth
Hi, some people recommend me to come here to report a user, my english is kinda bad so I wanted some help, this user commission me weeks ago and they was satisfied with my service, last night they gave me a message wanting to commission a more complete job, I gave my prices as they are but the user was rude and decided to end the conversation. but this morning the user opened a claim in paypal for a forced refund of the commission that had already ended weeks before as I commented before only because of the discussion that night.
the commission they wanted refund was finished and recived by them that same date in the screenshot of the files. the user deteled the conversation where i send them the files in dropblox.
I would be gladly to get your help. Thank you so much. I hope other artist not deal with this user anymore. I'm still resolving the false refund.
Money request:
Original transaction:
I've commissioned this artist at the 30th of October 2019.
[Mod edit]: Original listing - https://www.furaffinity.net/view/33612846/
Sent her references of my feral only character [1] ("feral only" means, there IS NO anthro reference), and told her the pose I would like to be in [2].
2 months followed without a response. I received not a single note. I haven't seen a single WIP.
At 12th of December 2019, she made a submission on FA. A fully finished picture, portraying my feral character as an anthro [3]. I didn’t have any say in it. I didn’t ever gave consent to this.
I requested a change and Patrik agreed [4]. So far so good.
I received a fix proposal the same day. But it wasn't working for me, the arms had anatomical issues [5]. So I told her those arms need some fixing [6], and gave her a reference to work with [7].
Even though only the arms needed fixing, Patrik was insisting she had to change the entire picture. I pressured that this was not the case, the rest can stay as it is [8].
I didn't receive a response. I sent another note to make sure and I didn't receive a response there either [9].
So then days and weeks pass and new submissions were uploaded. In January I tried speaking to her on Telegram. 3 days later I get the response that I should remain patient.
2 weeks later I ask again. No response.
2 weeks later, again, I ask again. No response.
1 week later, I ask again. No response [10].
All while she was active on FA and Twitter, mind you. Uploading all the submissions, obviously working on art, obviously being available.
And finally, February 12th, the day she started uploading submissions for the SECOND batch, I lost my patience. Thus far she has managed to work on 20 other artworks, but not on the fix of mine. I complained about her business practices and stated my ultimatum that, if she wants to keep the money, I expect a proper fix.
Finally she was able to respond, within 40 minutes even. Told me she didn't have time to do it. And left it at that without another response for another week again [11].
So February 18th (meanwhile 5 more submission were made, AND she opened slots for the third batch [12]), I asked "Will you work on the fix once your entire queue is empty?" I asked if she could finally respond in a reasonable time to me.
She responded within a minute, and sent another fix proposal [13]. It was feral this time... but absolutely not the pose I had asked for [14].
I'll be honest here, I could've left it at that and said "you know what, it's fine", but I refused to accept this after how I was treated all this time. I gave very proper instructions, very proper references and I'm getting this thrown at my face like "that's what you get, be happy with it"? No. Just no.
So what followed was a discussion about the details I gave her. I gave her all the screenshots of the notes she didn't care to respond to, which explained exactly what I wanted. I was really frustrated at this point [15]. I spoke to her about her business practices, how she is treating me and leaving me completely behind. 25 artworks on top of mine, and that's when I get my fix? I should've gotten the fix right then and there.
All she said was that every other drawing had no errors (yeah, if you don't show your customers, they can hardly complain, can they?). She "didn't have time to fix the artwork". But she had time for 25 other artworks [16]?
The discussion went a little wild at this point, too much information to put it all together. I wanted to show her how I have been treated unfairly by her.[17][18][19]
But here's the real cream of it all, and I'll pull her quote directly: "It is also your fault that you did not write in the description in which form you want your character" [20]
It is my fault that she drew my feral only character, to which she had an entire album of feral references, as an anthro?
Apparently, ALL the customers (and I mean every single one of them) do state wether they want to be anthro or feral [21].
Yes, I did in fact not state wether or not I wanted to be feral, because I had the wild assumption, that it would be completely, unquestionably obvious, that if I send an entire album full of feral only references, that I would like to be feral.
So, if it was "my fault" that I didn't state if I wanted to be feral or anthro, if she was unsure and just had to decide on her own...
"Why didn't you ask me?", I questioned.
"no time"... [22]
...
So Patrik literally claims that she had "no time", sending a note with a single question, which would take one minute at most, within the span of 2 months, before the completion of the artwork.
This is what makes it shameful. This is why I am so angry, frustrated and appalled.
At the 29th of March I have told Patrik that she has time to finish the fix until April 26th, because that's when my PayPal's Buyer Protection for this transaction will expire.
I have also told her that I extracted everything and will make an Artist Beware post soon, wether or not she actually finishes the fix. At this point she still has the chance to make it the best it can be.
Additionally I requested the artwork to be removed from all sites it had been posted on.
This message was unresponded to until short before the expiration date.
Eventually I activated PayPal’s Buyer Protection service, wrote a Trouble Ticket to FA about the Situation (about wanting the submission removed) and informed Patrik about it [23].
The 11th of May, Patrik asked me to cancel the PayPal dispute, for whatever reason. I did not comply, as it would eradicate my right to ever receive my money again [24].
15th of May I got fully refunded and FA Staff removed the submission.
I thought we were done. But unfortunately, it doesn’t end here.
At the 1st of June, Patrik sent me another “fixed” artwork, fully finished [25]. I did never ask for this. She asked me if I wanted the drawing.
I replied that I don’t. It is a finished piece of the first fixing proposal [5], which I had already rejected before. How am I supposed to receive this, after all this hassle about her not following my instructions? Not only is there so much negativity associated with the artwork now, it is still not fixed! The anatomy is still wrong on there, in a way that I find unacceptable. And again, I rejected this exact thing before!
I did not want to receive a “gift” either, that wouldn’t feel right. I was willing to pay her again, if she would have corrected it. I told her how I feel about all of it [26].
I will be entirely honest here, I don’t know why she did that. Was it supposed to be a gift, a redemption, an apology? Whatever it was, she failed me because it was the exact same thing. It was the EXACT SAME GAME she played with me here.
She finished a picture without having me look at it.
She didn’t work on the fixes I requested.
She finished it only after the entire queue was done.
I did not consent to her doing that with my character.
I am sorry, but no. These are the exact things I complained about, and she did it again. This feels much less than a gift, but more than a stab with a knife.
Patrik proceeded to show me the differences between the two finished pieces [3][25], insisting that she did change it to feral. Which, yes it was feral, but anatomically unacceptable for me, as the forelegs of a feral canine don’t bend that way.
For some reason, she picked up that Feral vs Anthro argument up again. Which lit another discussion about her business practices [27].
She then went back to insisting that she did a fix. Which I denied, telling her exactly what is wrong, and which solution I proposed before, 4 months ago [28], reciting my message from February [15].
Patrik proclaimed the case as over. Saying that now I have my money, and art. (As a fair sidenote, I do not accept the art. I’ve never added it to my private gallery and I never will.)
I responded saying that it isn’t all about the money for me. It’s about how ignorant she is towards the fact that when people pay for something, they expect a proper result for their price.
She only replied saying that my money has been returned.
At this point I admit, I lost my cool. I was infuriated by her ignorance towards the actual issue I was trying to tell her all those months since our first interaction. Telling her that she was treating me disrespectfully. Telling her how other artists struggle to even get as far as selling their art for that money, which she takes for granted. A little bit of back and forth on the same old themes again [29].
Interestingly, she admitted that her life has been changing and that it has been hard. Admitting that she doesn’t have the time to do commissions [30]. But that’s the only thing she would openly admit to me, before we were talking about business again. I’m still pushing the point that her business model is not okay and customer unfriendly [31].
And this concludes the end of it [32].
My beware reads as follows:
If you commission PatrikTheDog,
don’t expect to see a result within any reasonable time.
Don’t expect her to respond to your questions or issues. Most of your messages will go by unread and unresponded to.
Don’t expect her to respect your requests of changes, and if there are any to be made, you will be put at the end of the current (or next) queue, before she will do it.
You will not receive a WIP and she will not ask for your consent before she uploads artwork of your character, which the final result you might have issues with, as it was in my case.
She treats her customers with no respect, taking it for granted that she is earning money from you.
She will blame you for her own mistakes.
You will only receive a refund if you force her to, for example by using PayPal’s Buyer Protection service. Which she will request you to cancel, for no reason at all.
You might be asking, what do I want at this stage?
Patrik is a wonderful artist, no doubt. I absolutely admire her style, which is very unique, clean and beautiful. I am truly saddened that I possibly can not ever commission her again, to have any valuable piece of her artworks.
But her business practices are the just absolutely infuriating and customer unfriendly. She doesn’t know how to treat her customers right, and just expects them to play along her game. You’re a good customer as long as you don’t have any complaints about her. But when you do, since you might be caring about the artwork that you’re commissioning, expect some backlash.
What I truly want from her is a sincere apology. I feel mistreated and disrespected. Not once did she show some humility to what has happened. It seems like that I was only annoying her, when really, I just wanted to be a customer and treated with, at the very least, casual respect and attention.
I want her to do better than this, revise her business practices and think about how she treats art again. It is a shame that a talented artist like herself is going such a shady and unhealthy way.
Now you know the full story. I hope I can help make a change.
Below are all the sources I marked by numbers in the text above:
(Some links contain NSFW)
[1] https://imgur.com/a/LHZBi
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7] https://img.thrfun.com/img/080/750/.....tanding_x1.jpg (Not the original I sent her, as it disappeared from the web. But a very similar one.)
[8]
[9]
[10]
[11]
[12] https://www.furaffinity.net/view/35115002/
[13]
[14]
[15]
[16]
[17]
[18]
[19]
[20]
[21]
[22]
[23]
[24]
[25]
[26]
[27]
[28]
[29]
[30]
[31]
[32]
Mod edit: For anyone confused, the OP sold a character to the Bewaree/ Puppy. Instead of sending payment to the OP, Puppy sent it to Jury as payment for a character OP wished to purchase from Jury.
2 people in this have gotten scammed. me and jury. but this is mainly focused on what happened with me and alot happened through dms with this other user
Around when this happened, when the users toyhou.se was still active, they wanted to purchase a character from me. The character that is currently in their possession, is 🎮weasel🎮 (You are unable to see them now because of them being owned/stored in an account that is closed) After they claimed to have sent the money to jury(which was also a payment for a character i bought, https://toyhou.se/5828069.-darren- ), I of course transferred to character, unaware that this person has also scammed a few other people(searching for said people). Around May 12th of this year, I got a message from jury saying how that same user has filed a dispute against them, making it so the transaction was redacted. Since this happened they did not pay for the character
between the time periods of [12 May 2020, 3:05:07 pm] & [29 May 2020, 7:20:51 am] there has been no reply/activity in regards to the Puppyboy user.
But shortly after the character was transferred, the user's account was closed. (Approximately within that same week they were transferred assumingly?) But the account was closed rather early after the transfer was sent. Within that time. Listed above, I thought the situation was resolved, & the money had been paid back..... but then again what's the reason for closing your account if possibly resolved?
Puppyboy claimed that two people or possibly more have claimed they filed a chargeback. That was honestly odd, because if multiple people have claimed you filed a chargeback then it's likely you filed said chargeback and scammed something.
In the end the money got sent back to them, and they are now in possession of a scammed character any money used to pay off something. So then it would also make that character seem scammed, and not in my possession.
Just in case, here are examples of some of their art along with their up 2 date socials at the top - example | example | example | example | example
ok been 2 year i been deal with this kind give up i pay 200$ get body pillow done i got nothing back i keep ask or bug try not be rude to this person but been over this long for longest i have 2 year of chats him tell me gone get it done over and over have back logs pay his rent and every thing. i pay him for body pillow i was think he was a good friend to me did lot commission in the pass for me. i been in the dark for all most 2 year
that drawing all i got in all most 2 year what i got he even tell me make up to me give me more art work for lost of time i never got any thing but from that
i took it to point try get my money back with pay pal and this what they tell me more like well i got rob cuz give me that just say watch out this person he does art he did this on Patron too when had his own discord group took every one money when try to move not getting any one work done but has not done that late as i know just piss me off trust some one and just rob me
My fiance commissioned a shop on Etsy to draw some outfits for her character. She gave the artist a reference sheet of her character that I drew for her earlier this year. The shop traced the artwork and made two edits (The face was edited to look different, and one hand pose was changed very slightly) and if you lay the image over my artwork you can see that the lines match 90% I tried to censor the posts as much as possible and I apologize if there's any 'lewdness' to them, as you can see parts of the character's genital anatomy despite my best efforts to censor it while maintaining the integrity of the images (to best show how closely they matched the lines, down to nearly exact shapes and curves)
I confronted the artist and they denied that the artwork was traced. They offered to redraw the commission for my partner but our big fear is that they may be tracing other artists as well.
For the record the commission in question was incredibly cheap, under $15. The issue really isn't the money, for me, it's the theft of intellectual property for financial gain.
Etsy removed the listing but has not removed the shop from their website.
So I bought this fullsuit for 500$ + 50$ shipping on Instagram and the seller wanted me to pay with the "friends and family" option cus she needed the money to ship it. She (SnowAngelSuits) said she was gonna fix some holes and send it about 3-4 days later. When I hadn't heard from her by day 5 or 6 I reached out to her asking how it's going, but she wasn't in any hurry to reply until a few days later, saying she spent the money (including the shipping money) on other stuff and can't afford to send it until she gets a refund from someone else.
I had to reached out to her multiple times through out all this to even get her to reply, since she never contacted me whenever she said she would. She kept coming up with excuses throughout all this.
After this I unfortunately don't have anymore screenshots cus we came to an agreement that I would pay for shipping again since she apparently couldn't afford it and that she was going to look for cheaper shipping options (like shipping it in two boxes etc) to save money since I live in Sweden and not in the US. But she never got back to me with a price for the shipping, so I messaged her 2 weeks back from today asking how it was going and that she might as well sell the suit to someone else instead for a higher price so that I can get my money back and so that she can earn some money from it also but she never replied and now she has deleted her Instagram account so I can't contact her there anymore, and the conversation disappeared also..
I've tried asking my bank for help but they can't do anything without a "real" receipt with an order number included. And since I paid with the "friends and family" option I don't think I can get my money back through PayPal either, but I still tried messaged them about this so we'll see.
Undelivered Commission
I do realize I have been waiting for 6 and a half years for this suit. I have been trying to be understanding and patient with Clementine about this commission. However, after this long of a time period, her lack of communication, her every changing replies, and numerous excuses I have decided to move forward with this post.
Below is a timeline of the communication between myself and Clementine and also her boyfriend the CFO.
Back in November 2013 Clementine was having a black Friday (artistic freedom with limits) sale and I decided to buy it. (I believe the original post was on furbuy, but not 100% sure)
The commission was for a full suit for $1280, with a deposit of $576
I sent the deposit to her with a money order within a few days (because if i pay with PayPal I need to add 5% according to her TOS....which is a violation of PayPal, however that's not what I'm concerned about)
I was under the impression from her ad on furbuy that I would pay the rest once it was completed, so I waited.
April 22 2014, I receive an email asking about the rest of the payment, and I replied that I thought I was supposed to pay when it was done and before it shipped.
September 13 2014 (yes 5 months later) I receive another email telling me she does not work on anything until the payment is in full.
This is when the excuses start, her first reason is work is super slow until they sell their house.
We go back and forth for a little bit about paying and I send her money orders in early October for the balance ($704)
All during October 2014 she sketches up some designs and sends them over to me and we decide on one
Mid October she tells me she hasn't received the money orders and I end up having to call and get them stopped and reversed which took quite a while.
During November 2014 I had a huge expense (over $5500) and told her I had to hold off paying the rest until it got sorted out. We went back and forth on emails for a little bit and that's the time she started getting disrespectful to me saying how she has bills that are way past due.
She ends up getting angry with me and tells me she may cancel my commission and it is on hold "indefinitely" she also tells me that she has used my whole deposit to buy materials.
I ask for a refund at this point, and she tells me that there is no refunds and the deposit is non refundable ( I also would like to point out she has not asked me to sign any contract at this point)
She ends up blocking me on facebook in December, so I am no longer able to message her. She instead has her boyfriend (the CFO of her company) emails me and says he will conduct business with me from this point forward.
December 24th The CFO tells me that I need to make the remaining checks payable to him personally, and I refuse. I told him that my business is not with him it is with Clementine and i will make the checks payable to either her or make them out to fruitsuit creations. He then tells me I can make them payable to Clementine.
December 29th 2014 I sign a contract for the remaining balance
Since the contract was signed I mailed the payments as follows
Jan 15th 2015 mailed $200 ($100 plus $100 credit) - it was received on Jan 21st -- see below for paid in full email
Feb 23rd 2015 mailed $100 - it was received on Feb 28th -- see below for paid in full email
March I had a few extra bills and had to use the $100 credit from Jan -- see below for paid in full email
April 14th 2015 mailed $200 - received on April 19th -- see below for paid in full email
May 1st 2015 mailed $204 (the balance) - received on May 8th 2015 (paid in full) and was told I was moved to the "working queue"
Clementine sends a newsletter out 4 months later with her working queue and I am not on it, on the list is 2 heads, one partial, 3 on hold (with the commission names). She tells me there was some confusion and she will update it. She does not.
October 14 2016 (yes a year later) She tells me she is finishing up 2 heads and I'm a few spots down the line.
Jan 13 2017 she tells me there are six in front of me, 2 of which are just heads
**April 2017 more excuses that she has several breakdowns a week and it's hard to concentrate and work on commissions.
April of 2017 is when something odd happens.....there is another person commissioning her for a rush suit, I'm not sure if I can mention names, so I won't but there is another artist beware about Clementine from this person.
The odd thing is that they paid for this nearly 2 years after mine was paid off, but she was sending WIP pics to this person and I have yet to even be told my true place in line.
April 2017 she tells me my place is "one less then last time I told you"
**July 2017 more excuses of bad side effects from medication, mobile and cognitive Impairment, horribly depressed , separation anxiety, hysterical crying spells 3-5 times a day
[Verified by staff. Lots of medical information.]
July 8th 2017 she tells me "i believe there are 3 or 4 in front of you"
**September 2017 more excuses of her injuring her shoulder
September 2017 She gets mad at me for asking where I am in line saying that I've been waiting for a long time, she tells me that there are people waiting longer, and I signed a contract that has no completion dates.
Dec 11th 2018 (another year later) she tells me "trying to get this done so I can move on"
**January 2019 more excuses of her cat being sick, and not having a place to live with her workshop
May 29th 2019 after 100 excuses from her I am told "Thank you so much for your incredible patience! I do wholeheartedly promise that I will make your wait worth it!"
**August 2019 more excuses of her Mom being sick (not posting conversation due to her privacy on her mothers health issues)
Dec 15th 2019 after more excuses I am told "I really can't thank you enough for your patience.. and I promise I will go above and beyond to make it up to you, and everyone else I've let down.."
May 16th 2020 After asking about my place in line yet again, I am told "i believe you are 6th in line."....I then send her screenshots from 3 years prior of her telling me that there are 3 or 4 in front of me. she tells me she must be looking at the wrong copy and will get back to me.
_________________________________________________________________
I feel that I have been beyond patient with her, I can be sympathetic to what people are going through, or if they have things happen in their life that they need to just stop for a little bit (which she did have a few which I did not include in here due to the privacy of her family) However, with whatever you are going though mentally or physically and still traveling to many conventions and fursuiting while injured instead of working on your obligations, or even keeping me informed about anything that is going on in 6 and a half years, doesn't seem like a good way to conduct business. Waiting 6.5 YEARS from ordering or 5 years from it being paid in full with her story ever changing about where I am in her line, and excuse after excuse, (which I found another post with the same issues) has gotten me to this point of frustration where I feel I need to let others know. Especially since she has taken other commissions AFTER mine and has worked on them before mine.
Clementine has shown me that she doesn't seem interested in working on my suit by not letting me know anything about it, and the things she has told me she contradicts herself many times. For example, about what she has bought for my suit (she tells me she didn't buy anything, then she tells me she has the fur from a previous project, then she tells me she used all my deposit for supplies) another example is my place in line. I'm not quite sure if there is any bookkeeping in where she works on things, but she doesn't seem organized at all about what she is working on. There should be an exact answer to that question, I am not sure why I can't get a straight answer from her on that. She has not posted any updates on her working queue or anything of that sort in a few years, so I am not even sure she has one.
I had asked a few times early on for a refund which was refused, I even had said if she is unable to work on it at all that's fine, I can just get a refund and either do it myself or get it elsewhere, I have asked for a transfer to another person and that was refused, she seems to be banking on the contract saying is does not have any completion dates, however that doesn't give anyone the right to take money and not deliver a product ever, and I think 6 and a half years is way beyond the time limit to wait for something like this.
I feel that I have been very lenient with her and tried to compromise but her excuse after excuse has led me to make this post. Along with her lack of communication in her work order.
In the 6.5 years there has been a ton of emails and messages so I couldn't put them all so forgive me for such a long post.
Please think twice before commissioning anyone, and feel free to reach out to those who have commissioned a person in the past to ask about their experiences.
I was willing in the past to work with her in the past on this problem asking her what she needs from me in order to get her working on projects, (I even sent her a link to an industrial sewing machine for a good price because she was complaining about her needing a new one), but her lack of communication and concern about this commission has led me to believe that she does not intend to provide me with a product.
I am however still willing to accept a refund and turn this post to resolved, if she is willing to refund my payments.
