Shout opened for commissions in October of 2020 and being a fan of their work I jumped at the chance. I can't find the tweet with the original commission opening; sadly they seem to have mostly nuked both of their Twitter accounts. I have attached acceptance of the commission and proof of payment though.
So I paid, and then... nothing. For months. I sent them an email, left them a shout on FA (which they deleted), tweeted at them, then tweeted at them AGAIN and still received nothing.
Then I get a Twitter DM saying I will get a refund at the end of the month. I would rather have the art, but great! Sounds good.
No update from them since. Radio silence. I even tweeted at their NSFW account recently and still nothing. I am guessing, judging by their TWO lengthy Trello queues and constant nuking of social media accounts and making of new ones that I'm not the only person this has happened to.
I am writing today to talk about a fursuit commission I got from Unluckydinobear, who goes by ABearFromSpace now, back in January 2018. Since the transaction is so many years old, I do not have the paypal payment sent screenshots, however, I can show the Telegram chat messages to show that I indeed paid $800 for the commission, and he still has not completed the work, but he's been avoiding making the suit and compiling excuses to this day.
I was looking to get a fursuit commission, so I asked any friends to see if they knew any good makers or ideas to find one. A friend of mine, recently got a partial piece done from ABearFromSpace, so he told me his contact and I messaged him to see if he had any openings.
I ended up messaging him, and by luck, he said he had room for one more in the queue. I felt extremely lucky, and knowing fursuits take time to create, I would have expected at most this taking a year or two, as long as I was getting updates I was fine with this.
After sending character refs and other information, he gave me a quote of about $750. I was a little surprised since my friend got his suit from him for $400, but since he was one of his first commissions I understood the raise of price.
With an additional $50 for taxes and shipping, I ended up paying $800 for the partial fursuit.
Here I sent a partial payment for the fursuit, and ABearFromSpace tried to make conversation with me the next day which looks like he wanted to get me to pay the rest as soon as possible.
After 10 days, he asked me again for the rest of the payment. While I was able to pay the rest of the suit by the end of the month, it was understandable here how he just wanted to make sure the rest of the payment was going through soon. He also offered to make a chat for his commissioners, to my knowledge I don't think he ever did, or at least he never included me.
At the beginning of February, I was able to rest the payment, a total of $800.
After 2 months and discussions of character information, I was updated with a photo of some base heads Bear would be working on, and I was going to give him measurements to follow up with.
Another 2 months went by, and I popped in to see if there were any updates. He was in the process of moving and going to a con, so I told him it was understandable and thanks for updating me. This was about half a year since I paid for my suit and thought maybe I wouldn't have to wait TOO much longer.
Some time passed, and we barely talked in August about fursuit adjustments for my character, then in October I asked to see if there was anymore updates, and asked if my suit could be done before Further Confusion (FurCon) 2019 which was held on January 17, 2019. Here he said he thinks he was able to get it done, I held hope but part of me was ready to accept if I couldn't get it by then.
November rolls out and I talked with Bear to make sure that the suit would be done before FC, seems like he was confident in getting it done.
At the end of December, he drew up another WIP, and we discussed some suit adjustments.
Bear told me that he'll do his best to get my suit done by then, and if it's not all done he'd send what was completed. It seemed too good to be true since the con was less than a month away, but I was prepared to see what he'd have done.
Come January, he didn't have any part of the suit ready, and apologized saying he had the flu. Him getting it all done asap and rushed seemed to good to be true, so it was understandable he wasn't done, and I told him no rush hoping I'd get some progress soon at least. Bear said after he plans to finish no later than February and will have WIP pictures soon.
At the beginning of February, he sent me a very early build, but it was an exciting WIP nonetheless. It seemed like this was the start of great progress, even though it has been over a year since I first commissioned him, but this would be the only WIP photo I'd ever see.
While he promised to get my suit done at the end of February, nothing happened. I asked again in March if there was any progress, where he said he was depressed and going through something. Then in April I messaged him if he had any idea of when it would be complete, which he gave me a May-June window.
In May he was completely silent, and in June he said he was busy and would have my suit done before the upcoming FurCon 2020 (which would start on January 16, 2020).
Here again he said what progress he made and what he had to do, and that he should definitely get the suit done before FC 2020.
Come October, I wanted to see if there were any updates, since FC was slowly coming around the corner. He asked when I'd like my suit done before again, then never messaged me until the beginning of next year.
Instead of giving me a personal explanation for not getting the suit done again, he just drops this link and quickly scurries out which was the beginning point of me realizing that I wasn't the only one who was waiting for a commission to be done from him. This was the start of me losing my empathy and patience with this guy as things progressively got worse over the next two years.
After a bit over a week he responds seeming reluctant to get the suit done "soon".
In March I sent him for character tweaks, which was late on my part admittedly, but afterwards in April-June he was completely silent. At the end of July I asked him for another update which resulted in nothing again, and afterwards he did not respond until the beginning of 2021.
He finally responds at the beginning of January of 2021, after not messaging me since July 2020. He talks about how he's depressed again, and how he lost his Grandpa. As someone who has lost their grandparents as well, I've been in his position of being in a rut and losing motivation to get things done, however, given his list of excuses given out so many times, I can only feel so much empathy/sympathy from him and let him take LONGER and LONGER to get my suit done. At this point I told him if I could just get a refund if he had too much on his plate at the moment. He said he was willing to do my suit still and how it's "a cutie" which doesn't sound very professional at this point since he's been avoiding me and not getting work done.
I told him if he could get it done by June then I'd be okay with it, otherwise I wanted to talk with him about getting a refund. No updates pass by as usual and in March he gives me more excuses and "plans" to get it done in the Summer. Here I tell him I'll be okay with it if the suit can be done by the end of the year.
I start to show frustration with Bear as well and tell him I'd like a refund if he doesn't get the work done before the promised time. He ends up ghosting/not communicating with me as usual, so I tell him I'll contest PayPal if he doesn't get my work done. I've seen most people immediately try and contest payments and try to get their money back, but I wanted to talk with him about it instead of doing that.
September rolls out and still nothing to show.
Here he gives more lists of reasons why he hasn't started and promises to get WIPs soon.
I start to get more frustrated with him for his lack of effort and care communicating back with me. I leave two messages to him about how he still hasn't gotten my work done, then he read the messages and never responded, leaving me to tell him again I would contest PayPal. He says at the end to give him this month to try and make progress, if nothing happens he'll start the refunding process.
I tell him about how he needs to get his responsibilities in order. I sympathize with him with all the things he's been through but I try and tell him it's no excuse to leave me in the dust when I try and support him ordering a fursuit paying with my hard-earned money. We talk about how if nothing is done for November, then I'd want a refund.
He never got the suit done, and says he will work on getting the refund process started by the end of this year or beginning of next.
No updates still, we are now in the year 2022, over FOUR years since I first commissioned and sent the payment over to Bear.
No updates for another two months until I continually ask him, if I don't message him he'll legit forget about me and continue ignoring getting the fursuit done. I plea with him here, asking if he'll actually get it done, because I've waited so long for basically nothing. Only a few quick sketches and an early base from a few years ago. I just wanted my refund at this point, I didn't even want a fursuit anymore.
I felt like enough was enough. He wasn't responding to me, treating me respectfully, or getting any work done. I had come across the Artist's Beware site a few months ago and even noticed someone posted about Bear here (under his old username Unluckydinobear). I figured if he won't give me my money back for a fursuit he promised to get done several times over the past couple of years, this was my best bet to post. My friend, who originally got his suit from Bear, told me it was only partially completed and how Bear still needed to make adjustments, and also left him in the dust.
I wrote all of this here today not to "callout" or want any threats toward Bear, but I hope that if people end up showing interest in commissioning this man, please be aware of what you are getting yourself into. It has been 4+ years since I first commissioned Bear for a fursuit, and I still have gotten nothing. As of June 11, 2022, he still has not messaged me back, and looking at his Twitter account it seems like he's too distracted with other affairs to even care
I first met Cyberwolfdragon on Discord, in the USF server. There is a #looking-for-corner channel where people can post if they wanted to do an art trade, had an art request, were offering free art, etc. When looking through the channel, I found Cyberwolfdragon's latest message asking to do an art trade, and it was marked as open.
I then DMed them asking if they wanted to do a trade.
After this they didn't message me for around two months, until they sent this:
(This was a different character than their initial art trade request, but that was fine)
I finished my side of the trade in around 10 days.
This was the last time Cyber messaged me on Discord
I proceeded to remind them every so often of the trade they owed me.. with no response.
I will note here that I did use an artwork as a reference for the pose of my side of the trade. I don't have it saved so I can't show it, but Cyber didn't mention this at any point as a reason for declining the trade or something.
Cyber posted several messages in USF after the last message they sent me: one for open comms, and three offering a suit they had for sale. This is the only server I have in common with them.
(a day after their last message to me)
Several days after their last message, but before I reached out about it.
After I messaged them twice with no response.
After another new message from me, and their last message in USF.
After almost a year of this, I searched up their username and found some of their other accounts, including their YouTube.
Their email was linked in the contact section, so I attempted to reach out via that.
They responded in a bit over an hour.
(the blacked out line under my email is a send certificate that has contact info of theirs)
I recopied the image from my original Discord DM with it. I opened it in a new window to preserve the quality.
At this point, they began to ghost me again.
I attempted to reach out to them through other social medias. Their Twitter DMs are off, so I have sent a message to what is presumably their DeviantArt account since it has the same username, though the 5 arts and fursuit images I don't remember seeing on other platforms.
At this point my art has gotten a fair bit better, and I do draw original poses now or base them off of pictures of myself, but I just want my side of the art trade back, it's been a year.
October 06 2021: Contacted them, inquiring about commissions. They sent me a WIP shortly after we discussed ocs.
October 7 2021: Paid for the commission.
October 27 2021: Was sent another WIP.
December 10 2021- January 5 2022: They had briefly ghosted me here, before claiming my dms got hidden and they hadnt seen them, conveniently replying on the exact day I threatened a refund. They sent a wip a few hours later.
Febuary 8 2022: Reached out for a update, was told they were busy working on a bday animation and a presentation.
March 3 2022- Current Time:
Theyve completely ghosted me, and have blocked me on discord.
May 9 2022: Realized i was blocked on discord, reached out to them on instagram asking for a refund and was blocked there too.
May 10 2022: I've reached out to my bank and asked for a chargeback since its been too long to do one through paypal. Waiting for my banks response.
UPDATE: 5/17/2022
The artist has responded to the client via instagram regarding the outstanding commission.
June 21, 2021: First sent message to Xoloitz via Telegram, inquiring for a commission.
June 22, 2021: Details sent to Xoloitz for a three character commission: two of my characters and a character belonging to a friend.
After a lewd comment on the size of my friend's character's junk, Xoloitz quotes a price of $160 shaded or $120 flat colors, and I approve the former. Payment of $160 USD is sent via PayPal that same day. (Note: NSFW content censored.)
November 12, 2021: Xoloitz opens for commissions again.
December 12, 2021: First inquiry to Xoloitz over Telegram regarding status of commission.
Xoloitz claims to have forgotten about it and promises to get on it ASAP.
January 23, 2022: Second inquiry via Telegram about commission status. No response.
February 9, 2022: Third inquiry via Telegram. No response at the time.
February 11, 2022: Inquiry via Twitter DM. No response.
February 19, 2022: Inquiry via FurAffinity DM. no response.
February 23, 2022: Xoloitz finally responds to February 9 Telegram inquiry, stating to have been in a car accident.
February 24, 2022: Xoloitz sends a WIP. I ask twice for the characters' sizes to be changed and Xoloitz complies. (NSFW content censored in screen shots.)
(Note: The comment "could it be possible to remove the comments on FA since we are already working on your commission?" refers to a comment my friend made on Xoloitz' FA regarding the status of the commission; however, I was unable to screencap this comment before it got deleted.)
February 25, 2022: Xoloitz opens for commissions again.
March 21, 2022: Message sent to Xoloitz over Telegram, asking for the commission to be finished or refunded within two weeks. No response.
March 22, 2022: Same message as prior day. No response.
April 5, 2022: Two-week time limit established on March 21 expired. No response.
April 29, 2022: Yet another inquiry via FurAffinity DM. No response.
I will consider this resolved when Xoloitz refunds me the full $160 price.
Hi my name is LadyOlg.
I come to you with the help and advice of Salisha following a dispute with the artist Kellion.
It's already been several months since I started to collaborate with him following a Devianart contest he created and I won. Only in the last two months the situation has changed quickly, Kellion tried to hijack my drawings and resell them at auction.
The last order I made for him was paid 170€, a YCH with 8 characters at 20€ each plus 10€ for the landscape.
It was obviously agreed that the figures would be resold so that he could pay back the commission but he never told me that he would make money on them. Two artists including Salisha came to warn me of this, the resale is done on Furafinity, not being known yet on it I think Kellion imagined that I had no account and could make the sale behind my back.
So I posted a public comment under the sale to point out an error on his part, without insults or even getting angry because I still believed I could trust him and that there must be a mistake. Obviously he masked the comment but he was also quite angry because some artists had noticed it and wanted to be reimbursed or even threw it out of their community.
I often asked Kellion to be clear with me, as his requests were sometimes changing and confusing but I put this down to the fact that neither he nor I speak English. As he was offering me his help since I was a beginner as an artist, I often asked him if my prices were correct, being really cheap at the beginning he advised me once to increase them, which I did but being a beginner I didn't dare to increase them much and asked him however if it was correct, on those he didn't warn me about my prices put only gave an example of a price sheet I could make, not in relation to the budget but in relation to my own rates depending on the type of art.
Kellion turned my naivety against me, using this very argument to tell me that these were the prices I had chosen and that it was normal for him to sell them at a higher price because he said that he didn't think he would be able to sell everything concerning the YCH...
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
It wasn't the first time Kellion tries to foul me, you will see it on the captures, but it was more subtle ( for me ) and he managed to manipulate me well enought to be me doing the apologizes and feeling like I've made a mistake or don't understand...
I'm sorry for my bad English on the captures, I hope you will understand me well.
I've to capture all our conversation sins the beguening so I'll probably send you another email with the rest of the capture !
In the last capture, you can find the first argument on the 33 and the last start to the 87.
Here you got the link of the sell he had post on FA : https://www.furaffinity.net/view/45866391/
Thank you a lot for your attention
I was contacted by the client on 20th March 2022 with regards to a YCH advertised on Instagram:
Here’s proof of the client paying for the commission (potential legal name redacted):
I sent them a link to their spot on my public queue, which has access to my terms of service on it as well, and explained my work patterns. Here’s proof of this being added to my queue, as Trello tracks all progress and changes to anything on it:
For transparency, here’s my public queue link.
The client asked for an update on 1st April 2022, which is no issue at all, but I noted I had not started on the piece yet. While no turnaround time had been communicated by myself nor the client, my average turnaround is around three weeks, depending on the piece and length of my queue:
I was finishing up a couple of really large pieces before moving onto the next batch, as communicated above. I got a WIP of the line edits requested to the client the next day as promised, and added minor bits of colour as I was making sure the line changes looked correct:
The client confirmed that they were happy with the changes, but wanted a more obvious flick on the hair, and the bandana removing. The bandana is noted as not being optional on the ref, so I confirmed that they definitely wanted it removing. My terms of service state that it is the commissioner’s responsibility to ensure their ref sheet is up to date and changes are communicated in advance, but I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt that it was an honest mistake, and made the change with no quarrel:
For reference, here’s that part mentioned in my terms of service. Note that this refers to pieces developed outside of YCHs, so I show line art instead before continuing, as there is no sketch to show, only line edits where needed. As mentioned, my terms of service is available via my public queue:
As these were minor changes and the client otherwise stated that the piece was ‘perfect’, and not wanting to make the client wait even longer for the piece, I moved onto colouring the piece. At this stage, I noticed that the client’s ref sheet was very difficult to work from, as it was low quality and the markings did not line up across the different views. I actually had my husband and an artist friend view it as well in order to help me figure out if I was getting it right, as I have ADHD and can sometimes miss markings (which is also outlined in my terms of service):
To illustrate the issues I was having, here’s part of the conversation I had with my artist friend (identity not included as it’s irrelevant). This artist knows my struggles with some markings, and this is an informal peer-to-peer exchange in helping each other do the best for our clients. This tends to speed up commission work for clients, and means clients don’t get pestered as much over every single marking. I’m also including this to prove that I was not being complacent in trying to get this piece right for the client:
I worked on the markings and got back to the client on 7th April with how I had interpreted them based on the ref sheet. The client, rather than asking for alterations that they were very welcome to ask for, instead asked for a full refund:
I was quite taken aback by this, as this seemed like a drastic change from the line art being described as ‘perfect’ save for a few alterations. I offered a few options on how to move forward, which I felt were fair to both parties:
I linked to my terms of service, which were on my public queue but I was unsure whether they had missed them, and highlighted my refund policy. For reference, here’s my public Terms of Service.
I felt that I was being more than fair in offering to make changes based on presumably different markings that may exist on a new reference. The client appeared to retroactively take issue with the fact I had done the markings, as this meant they would receive less of a refund. However, I explained that because they had otherwise said the piece was ‘perfect’ and the changes were so minor, I had continued with it. If they had needed more edits to the identified issues with the line art, I would have been happy to oblige:
I calculated roughly how much the client would receive in a refund. The client then listed what changes needed to be made, so I assumed they therefore wanted to continue with the piece. While there are a few changes needed, they were all minor things that would take me very little time to change. This exchange took a few days, as noted in the screenshots, due to the client taking upwards of 24 hours to respond to each message. While I didn’t note it at the time, the first image that the client uses as proof of changes required is from an image I had not received at this point, and is pointing out markings absent or at least different from the ref sheet:
I asked for clarification on some markings and noted where I genuinely missed things, such as the nosering, which was my mistake to own. Some of the markings, such as the brown on the leg, I still do not think are consistent with the ref sheet, as they were asking me to put markings on the front on the leg onto the back. However, I was happy to oblige, and this is where the conversation ended, with my understanding being that they would like the changes made and then would review them.
As stated previously, I do not work on art every day, and happened to be away from home for a few days, but remained in contact with commissioners and worked on my queue a bit. I received notice from PayPal that a dispute had been opened against me by the client with no notice, and saw that they had blocked me on Instagram:
I tried to respond via PayPal to explain my side, but the respond button didn’t work:
I attempted to reach out on Instagram before realising they’d blocked me:
I had to reach out to PayPal but was unsatisfied with them essentially saying I had to now just wait until May for PayPal to step in to decide on the case, due to the website not working correctly. Here is me contacting them on the site before I eventually called them:
I realised that I had the client’s email address, since they’d emailed over a higher quality ref sheet image (same image as previously posted), and reached out there to try to come to an agreement. I reference what the client said in their PayPal dispute text, but due to the site not working correctly, I can’t retrieve a screenshot of this:
The client responded reiterating that they wanted a full refund, which seemed unreasonable for the reasons already explained to them:
It seemed that we were making progress, and they unblocked me on Instagram, but did not take down their dispute from PayPal, which meant I was still unsure if they were going to attempt to challenge the case either way. I explained how they could do it, but this never happened:
I made the edits asked for originally on Instagram, which took very little time as expected:
The client asked for more edits, which I did without issue:
The client then asked for more edits, and again used a reference image that they had not shown me. I could see that the piece had different markings to the ones visible on the original ref sheet, and they additionally asked for more line art changes:
At this stage, working with the client was severely impacting my mental health, and with the PayPal dispute still open, I was scared I would have to keep making endless edits based on images I hadn’t seen in order to please them:
The client went silent again after this message, which gave me time to reflect. I decided that the principle of keeping a mere £15 was not worth the stress that all of this was causing me, so when the client still hadn’t replied in the morning, I decided to just refund them in full in order to end the whole thing:
I could not refund the piece due to PayPal’s broken website, so I contacted PayPal in order to ask them to close the dispute in favour of the client:
I do not believe that I was treated at all fairly by this client and refunded them entirely just to end contact with them. This was already impacting my ability to work on my queue, and I did not want it to impact anyone else.
So this was my first step into doing commission stories. After I put out a notice on both Deviantart and Furaffinity announcing that I am doing story commissions, with the prices being .003 cents per word, or $30 per every 1,000 word. This gent messaged me on Deviantart, commisisoned me to do a fatfur story involving Sonic and Tails (as adults of course, after making him clarify). Of course, as you can surmise from the exchanges provided below, this was my first time, and doing it in the middle of a university semester, so it too much longer than I would have liked. I have a 30 day deadline, but I had to delay the delivery by about three weeks due to me not managing my classes and commission duties well.
Needless to say, I delivered the product to him after some back and forth on what he wanted in the story, and he was happy with the product, but he told me he couldn't pay me until the 8th of April. Not seeing the red flags, I accepted that. When the day came, I asked him if he had the money ready. No response. I sent him another message the next day, telling him I need the money and that he promised to pay me $90 on the day in question. Again, no response. Today, I tried to message him again, but I found out he blocked me on Deviantart, so I can't even message him anymore. So now I am posting this beware bulletin to warn other folks about this guy.
I contacted AroccoSuits to purchase a commission 2/7/2019. I sent payment ($550) on 2/13/2019. As of today, 4/4/2022, I have not received any evidence of work being done on the product I purchased and none of my emails are being answered.
Andrew would keep giving me an estimated date of when work would be done, but the date would pass with no further contact. He would also keep moving my place in his queue.
Andrew has emailed me about his health issues as a reason for slow work, but this does not excuse the lack of communication and hoarding of my money in my opinion. PayPal can do nothing of any claims I make since it has been so long since the transaction was made.
On august 2019 i commission kitamonplush for two plush on her facebook page and payment was sent via paypal and i not ask for update because of covid happen in 2020 and i ask for 0ne on 5/30/20 she did give me a update the next time i ask for a update it was 2/25/21 she give me the some update it almost does. at the point i now some was wrong . so i look some of her other accounts now like her etsy page you can tell she make plush for her store and some people neve get it too the two plush was for my brother he die from covid i was did i get scam so i talk to her about it and we change the plush the next time i ask for it was 1/26/22 still no update and still not have be read so i make a new account and send her a message she did read it say have be read so i have mark it and now i have be block on my account bye her so i cant message her
