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Fauwcks

Commissioner wants to edit image themselves to avoid extra fee

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So I sold a multi-slot YCH a couple weeks ago, and all takers have been happy with the completed images, but one wanted an edit. They described the edit as needing "2 triangle spikes" on the cheeks (it's a pokemon OC), and that's exactly what I did and asked if it looked better, I did not ask for an extra charge on that edit. They came back to me and said I was close and then kinda edited the image itself to show me what they wanted, which was not 2 triangle spikes specifically, more like fur hanging down clumped into two chunks, and they said to replicate what I did with the hair on the cheeks (more detailed with finer strands and such), so not so much just "2 triangle spikes."

So I asked for a little extra for the edits, only $7. (Original YCH price was $40)

They then said that they felt blindsided by the extra change, and then said their SO (and their friends) would only charge $5 for such a thing, and said they'd only pay $5 for it, and if I didn't take that, they'd just edit it themselves to their liking. They didn't ask if they could edit, just said they would.

This was my response to their last email:

"

As for edit charges, I do mention charging extra in my TOS for things, especially after the sketch phase, but since I typically don't show the sketch for YCHs I always let a single edit go for free. A good rule of thumb is to always read the TOS of an artist you're buying art from, even if it's a YCH. My TOS is linked on my profile as well as in the header and footer of my journal. But here's a direct link for convenience. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NQ9Wpqb5uBAyeWzr0BXHdZT23kfsbd1DDl1-NuGuSrY/edit
Pricing is up to the artists' discretion, so it's a bit unfair to compare one artists prices to anothers. I'll decline the $5 offer and just post the original.
Also, I'd prefer you not edit my art, at least not without asking permission first.
And thank you for the kind words, I will also take this as a learning experience. I'll make sure to clear up any confusion regarding my TOS, and maybe start linking it in my YCH posts so it's not missed

"

So, a few things.

Was I wrong to suddenly add an extra fee for a second edit?

If not, was the edit price fair?

And what would be the best response for that "edit it themselves" thing? I prefer people not edit my art, or at the very least ask first, but idk if I'm just being stingy.

(I left the link to my TOS in the email copy, in case anyone needs and clarification on what it says.)

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For your first question:  Were the triangle fur pieces clearly visible on the given references?  If no, then you are within your rights to charge for an edit.  If yes, then the error should be fixed without charge as it is artist error.

The edit price is fair, especially if you do not work in a manner that lends itself to easy editing.  (Every little thing I do is on a separate layer for ease of edits.  It can be very resource intensive on some computers.)

As for other folks editing your work you are within your rights to decline edits, and even file a DMCA against unauthorized edits.  The latter is a burn the bridge scenario.  Personally, I do not allow edits unless the edits themselves are clearly identified.  If they do a poor job, then that's your name that is associated with it.

Edit:  After a bit of digging (sorry!) it appears that Pokemon does have two triangle spikes as part of their default design.  If you're unfamiliar with later gen Pokemon, then it's understandable that it may have come off as a stylistic choice.  If it were me I would fix it free of charge given it's part of the default design.

 

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Re: the edits, I second everything Celestina said, but I wanted to add some further advice in general because of what you said about your TOS gave me pause.

In the future, simply having it posted freely available should not be enough. Linking it on your YCH posts going forward is also a good step, but I would also, before accepting money, specifically link your TOS to your clients and have them respond with clear, written agreement to it. Assuming your clients read and agreed to your TOS just because it's freely available isn't good business practice, and unless this client specifically expressed that they had read and agreed to your terms before going in to the transaction, holding them to a TOS they clearly weren't aware even existed... I kiiiind of feel that fumble is on you, sorry. ?

You, and others, are free to disagree with me on that, but situations like this is exactly why you should always have this in writing.

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Posted (edited)

(Note, they didn't give me specific references, just linked to their FA account)

1. The first edit was free, I looked through their gallery (a few times actually) and noticed the cheek fluff is in a variety of styles, though the triangle spike style did show up a few times, but since other pics showed a kinda normal look to it, I just decided not to change what I already had. And when they asked for an edit to include the little triangle spikes, I did it without issue. The exact sentence they used was " Just the 2 little triangle spikes on each side will do it." And that's exactly what I did and did not charge for it.

That was all the first edit.

The second edit was when they edited my pic and then described what they wanted differently than the first time. Instead of "spikes" (which I interpreted as what was displayed in their gallery and on the actual pokemon itself) they wanted it more like the original but longer with more strands and detail. I feel like they just gave me conflicting descriptions, so I asked for compensation.

2. Editing was easy I guess? I have the lines and colors on different layers. Plus I had a blush layer for the cheeks, so in total only three layers to edit.

3. Thanks for the info, I think I may stand my ground on no editing.

 

Edit: This was in response to Celestina

Edited by Fauwcks
response to celestina

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4 minutes ago, flucket said:

Re: the edits, I second everything Celestina said, but I wanted to add some further advice in general because of what you said about your TOS gave me pause.

In the future, simply having it posted freely available should not be enough. Linking it on your YCH posts going forward is also a good step, but I would also, before accepting money, specifically link your TOS to your clients and have them respond with clear, written agreement to it. Assuming your clients read and agreed to your TOS just because it's freely available isn't good business practice, and unless this client specifically expressed that they had read and agreed to your terms before going in to the transaction, holding them to a TOS they clearly weren't aware even existed... I kiiiind of feel that fumble is on you, sorry. ?

You, and others, are free to disagree with me on that, but situations like this is exactly why you should always have this in writing.

I feel that maybe the fumble is on both of us equally. Most artists do have a TOS, so commissioners, I feel, should at least be aware of that, and that each commission they buy is not a "no strings attached" type of thing.

I don't hide my TOS, it's easy to find. But I really SHOULD have posted it in the YCH post, so I guess I did fail at that.

Though I'm always one to look for the TOS and ask questions first before buying, I shouldn't assume others to the same I guess ?

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11 minutes ago, Fauwcks said:

I feel that maybe the fumble is on both of us equally. Most artists do have a TOS, so commissioners, I feel, should at least be aware of that, and that each commission they buy is not a "no strings attached" type of thing.

I don't hide my TOS, it's easy to find. But I really SHOULD have posted it in the YCH post, so I guess I did fail at that.

Though I'm always one to look for the TOS and ask questions first before buying, I shouldn't assume others to the same I guess ?

I would say that you didn't specifically fail to do anything as it was a learning experience of why it's valuable to take a bit of your time to make sure your TOS is in clear view at all time when relevant.

The whole reason anyone makes a TOS is for you safety and sanity. Having it visible and making sure people agree to it beforehand makes sure that they are responsible for their actions from that point forward that conflict with what was already agreed to. You have a TOS, it's easily accessible, but the saying goes, "An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of a cure." It's one of those customer service quirks because there's always going to be someone that misses something in the TOS that will make them responsible for something. Regardless of how, why, or when they miss these things all you can do is try to be as clear and diligent as possible.

A good way to think of it is that rather than failing to do something or you being at fault is that you have learned that sometimes you need to take extra steps to have your bases covered because people will avoid reading, not look, or not even bother with the TOS in most cases. Most of the time it's not really an issue as most people don't have unreasonable demands to begin with, but when dealing with the wild world of customer service you will always find a way to see or hear of something completely new.. for better or worse.

Also, the editing fees aren't really a big deal in my opinion. I usually will give tips if I felt like I bothered an artist more than usual and they didn't charge for edits. As long as you maintain a calm demeanor and try to reason with your clients you'll maintain a good standing with most folks. Professionalism goes a long way to preventing drama or misunderstandings. It's fine to be nice or personable, but sometimes a healthy business attitude will serve you well in the long run.

Hope my insight helped you!

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I admittedly wouldn't have charged for such a minor edit, however I probably would have asked further clarification questions before I actually made the edit itself. Hearing a request phrased as 'two triangles on the cheek' and nothing more would have made me follow up with 'what do you mean two triangles, do you have examples?' because that's too dang vague to work with and I value my time.

And while I know it was a YCH do you ever show the edit sketch stage before you finish things up to your clients? I feel like this whole thing could have easily been avoided had WIP been shown sooner. I can only speculate of course, seeing as I have no idea what the type of finish was intended for the piece.

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1 hour ago, Arkas said:

I would say that you didn't specifically fail to do anything as it was a learning experience of why it's valuable to take a bit of your time to make sure your TOS is in clear view at all time when relevant.

The whole reason anyone makes a TOS is for you safety and sanity. Having it visible and making sure people agree to it beforehand makes sure that they are responsible for their actions from that point forward that conflict with what was already agreed to. You have a TOS, it's easily accessible, but the saying goes, "An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of a cure." It's one of those customer service quirks because there's always going to be someone that misses something in the TOS that will make them responsible for something. Regardless of how, why, or when they miss these things all you can do is try to be as clear and diligent as possible.

A good way to think of it is that rather than failing to do something or you being at fault is that you have learned that sometimes you need to take extra steps to have your bases covered because people will avoid reading, not look, or not even bother with the TOS in most cases. Most of the time it's not really an issue as most people don't have unreasonable demands to begin with, but when dealing with the wild world of customer service you will always find a way to see or hear of something completely new.. for better or worse.

Also, the editing fees aren't really a big deal in my opinion. I usually will give tips if I felt like I bothered an artist more than usual and they didn't charge for edits. As long as you maintain a calm demeanor and try to reason with your clients you'll maintain a good standing with most folks. Professionalism goes a long way to preventing drama or misunderstandings. It's fine to be nice or personable, but sometimes a healthy business attitude will serve you well in the long run.

Hope my insight helped you!

Your insight was very helpful, thank you!

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37 minutes ago, armaina said:

I admittedly wouldn't have charged for such a minor edit, however I probably would have asked further clarification questions before I actually made the edit itself. Hearing a request phrased as 'two triangles on the cheek' and nothing more would have made me follow up with 'what do you mean two triangles, do you have examples?' because that's too dang vague to work with and I value my time.

And while I know it was a YCH do you ever show the edit sketch stage before you finish things up to your clients? I feel like this whole thing could have easily been avoided had WIP been shown sooner. I can only speculate of course, seeing as I have no idea what the type of finish was intended for the piece.

I don't usually show sketch edits of YCHs because the post I made regarding the YCH has the sketch base in it already. That combined with the fact that they handed be their entire FA gallery as their reference(they have less than a page of pics though), with differing styles for the cheek fluff, so I assumed leaving the fluff style I already had would be fine (it's bad to assume though >.>). And the "2 triangles" on the cheeks was actually represented in some of their pics, so I edited it to, again, what was represented in the gallery. All in all, I worked with what I was given, still should have asked though >.>

As I said, I don't typically show sketches for YCHs as they have already seen the sketch in my post, and I've never had an issue with it until this point. I'm also usually given a single clear reference, so I think that was the biggest problem there, I should have asked for a single reference.

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Posted (edited)

I'd honestly advise to give out sketch edit WIPs anyway, especially if it's a species change or stuff has to be added to the base (example: hairstyles, wings, accessories, etc.) just to be on the safer side. It allows the customer to ask for changes before any serious work has been done which can save you a lot of time later and accidents like this one can be avoided easily.

Edited by Alkraas

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It's in my TOS that a certain number of revisions are permitted during the sketch/lineart phase; after that a fee is incurred, unless the mistake was my fault. So I wouldn't necessarily have charged for that edit, unless it was after a pile of excessive edits.  However, I believe you had every right to do so. 

That having been said, I definitely bristled over them pretty much demanding to only pay the 5 bucks and then saying they would edit themselves. Very disrespectful. I don't mind if a patron redlines my stuff to help me along when I'm not getting it, but I would absolutely take offense to that being done without my permission.

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