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  • Welcome to Artists Beware! 

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  • Beware : Bad Coyote / Critter Canvas


    WindTide
    • Who: Bad Coyote (aka) Critter Canvas
      Where: Twitter: https://twitter.com/BigBadYote

      Twitter: https://twitter.com/CritterCanvas

      Furaffinity: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/badcoyote

      Picarto: https://picarto.tv/badcoyoteart
      When: 09/08/2018
      What: Commission


    As of this writing, posted in May 2020, I regret to make such a post for an artist that, given his talent, is unfortunately an artist that has given due consideration to list my grievances towards.

     

    To start things off, I had paid for a commission to the amount of $520 through Paypal, for one of his themed stream commission pieces. Below is a screenshot indicating the purchase that I made to that effect:

     

    Screenshot_20200504-160444.thumb.png.2b0aea9a2b6d6cf65a5f65fa3d6426a1.png

     

    Having worked with Bad Coyote, and Lobosan who acts on behalf of Bad Coyote in commission related conversation, I admit that I had some past difficulty with one other commission. However, I was willing to be lenient in spite of this, and figured that given a reasonable time frame, with updates about where I stand, it would be no problem ordering a commission for the amount that I paid (the amount paid, by the way, included a tip on top of what was asked initially).

     

    Here is a snap shot taken from Discord initially about where I stood for the piece. Here, this screenshot conveys that:

     

    • I had paid for the commission (with tip included)
    • Bad Coyote (aka BC) has indicated that the "bulk of this would be done either October / November"
    • Details affirming the commission and an understanding of what I had ordered.

     

    image.png.0dcca8804f7bbb6f301ec29de4e67060.png

     

    Fast forward to December 2018 (at this point, 3 months later, 1 month behind estimated delivery date)

     

    At one point, I wanted to follow up with Bad Coyote and Lobosan to ask about the commission, so I had messaged Lobosan to ask about my commission

     

    In summary of the conversation made here in the following screenshots:

     

    • Bad Coyote was not feeling well and was unable to give an update on the commission
    • If I needed to discuss a refund, then I would be welcome to ask outright (this will come into play later)
    • I tried to clarify I just wanted to get an understanding of where I am at
    • Given the stressful circumstances, I was willing to extend the time I had to wait

     

    image.png.1ccf5c2db2f4d768f5c3ac7708cfc147.png

    image.png.62be40889034c1889824194d3b3ed4ff.png

     

    Sometime after the conversation, Lobosan and I had messaged to see if we could set up a time to where BC would stream and work on the commission

     

    A few days later, I had messaged Bad Coyote to see if I could get an update on the commission which I had ordered

     

    At this point, I was in line to discuss with Bad Coyote about setting up a session through a streaming platform where I could see the commission being worked on:

     

    image.png.24a0e21703bbeab29986de196ee62de9.png

     

    A few days later I had received a message from BC regarding the session:

     

    image.png.a413798feae258b021afa3006aaa35b8.png

     

    I had no other record from either Bad Coyote or Lobosan from this stretch of time, on any of my devices or chat logs regarding the status

    of my commission that I have ordered.

     

    At this point, many months later after what I had thought I had made an effort to communicate my stance and hopes of getting updates on the commission I

    had ordered, I was at a bit of a lost as to whether I would get any kind of news, or even suggestion that my commission would be started on.

     

    Fast forward to May 2020 (at this point, 18 months later, grossly behind estimated delivery date)

     

    I finally receive an update, and at this point was in low spirits to a point that I frankly didn't care any more about the commission

     

    This is where things went south fast as I had tried to express my wish to receive a refund on the commission:

     

    image.png.87e1f0618df98a6e7598160be97a1124.png

     

    At this point, being human and having my patience tested, I had responded in a manner of indignation to have to put up with this:

     

    image.png.cb3e9231376565ad26c7aefcbe429d09.png

     

    It is a lot to digest from the conversation, but I would like to offer as much context to this difficult conversation that I went through:

     

    • I have been a commissioner for a few years at this point having ordered around 10 pieces or so.
    • I had thought I had established a good artist / commissioner relationship at this point
    • My previous efforts to communicate on my commission piece had earned me the criticism from Lobosan to be called a "thankless customer" with a "poor attitude"
    • My efforts to try and discuss a refund having waited for so long, was no longer open to discussion (even though Lobosan had offered to give a refund at an earlier point)

     

    Naturally I had conversed to Bad Coyote directly and addressed my disappointment in all of what has happened in the span of conversations I had over the weekend (as of writing this May 4 2020)

     

    This is ultimately what I was left with on a parting note from Bad Coyote:

     

    image.png.ddc70644cb3df8e9c19c7b1aea050190.png

     

    • After 18 months of nothing to go on for the commission that I paid $520, there was nothing to give an update as he seemed to have not started on it
    • I apparently have received the same amount of communication to the other commissioners he had (which I cannot imagine how nightmarish this scenario has been for the other commissioners)
    • Trying to address a problem to both Bad Coyote, and Lobosan, about the commission I ordered and waited for several months ago, has come to a point where having to ask for a refund has warranted me is "thankless" by the artist himself

     

    Whether or not I will receive the commission that I have ordered, remains to be seen. I have no expectations on it being delivered to me, or that it will be

    worth the wait that I put up with trying to communicate to both Bad Coyote and Lobosan over the commission piece.

     

    In all, I fail to understand how in the process of all that I had to put up with from Bad Coyote and Lobosan how any of this could be

    considered  a "satisfactory mutual conclusion" having been barred from further association when I tried to address a SEVERE

    PROBLEM in their business model and interaction with their client(s).

     

    I can NO LONGER endorse Bad Coyote as an artist that is worth anyone's time to order any commissions from. They have demonstrated

    poor communication with their commissioners and will attack / discredit legitimate concerns that are brought up against them.

     

     



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    Welcome to Artists Beware! 

    All posts have been reviewed prior to being allowed in.

     


    Comments are moderated:  Please review the Commenting Rules.  Comments that don't meet our rules will not be posted.

    If your post is resolved:  Contact one (1) member of staff or leave a comment, and we'll update your post!

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    • Administrator

    You know I've been modding for this community for five years now.  I've seen almost everything, and a post hasn't made me more upset than this one in a while.  The absolute audacity of these two.  You stayed quiet for over a year, and they act like you being firm is literally kicking a puppy across the room.

    And as for Bad Coyote shuffling and going "well I can't control my manager".  Bullshit.  Your manager is an extension of your image.  It's in your best interest to not have them prancing around on a high horse when a customer asks for a DESERVED refund.

    As for thankless clients?  They should be grateful to have a patient client who didn't file a chargeback for $500+.  What a complete lack of gratitude.

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    I just read all this and...

    Holy

    Bloody

    Hell

     

    Paid commissions is a business transaction, what the absolute hell is this attitude? This is like walking into a WalMart, paying for a TV on layaway, waiting a year and a half watching everyone else walk out of the store with the new TVs, and all the customer service rep does is cry because they gave you a free keychain and you need to be more considerate.

     

    Beware well warranted, in my opinion.

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    Agreeing with Cel. You've been nothing but polite, considerate, and patient through-out all of this, and have had nothing to show for it. You are not responsible for the other customers, you're also not asking for anything unreasonable.

    And calling you 'thankless', exactly what were you supposed to be thankful for? No updates? Being Insulted? Never refunded, no product delivered, money just absorbed and treated as though you should somehow be grateful for that outcome. Both the artist and the manager need to take a step back and evaluate how they conduct business at all.

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    First of all, I would like to thank everyone that has voice their reaction to the experience that I had to go through with this unfortunate commissioning process. I feel better knowing that there has been some reaffirming sentiments over how ludicrous the affair has been trying to deal with BC and Lobosan.

     

    I think it is even more critical now seeing the responses to further elaborate on the integrity that BC holds himself up to, as he explains in a journal post that a "professional artist" should not have to spend a rather long time to finish a commission:

     

    https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5914098/#cid:41132166

     

    image.thumb.png.84a8b2e7e5fbe460284600e4510de048.png

     

    Ladies and Gentleman, I frankly find this inexcusable that having this view point at one point in time, that he would completely forego any sense of integrity. 

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    Recognized the journal they replied to how ironic that the person in question (AMWULF journal) has a few artist bewares as well in the old one check said tags in the livejournal for details.

    Badcoyote is the one to talk about professionalism with his own terrible attitude in this.

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    I just couldn't continue reading the last screenshots from BadCoyote, it was that bad.  Lobo's own messages were a big yikes but wow wee wow.  Awful management, awful business practices.  You waited for two years patiently and finally had enough and they outright refused to refund you despite how civil you were being.  You paid in ADVANCE for a service and BadCoyote just didn't do it.  They're in the wrong here completely, esp BadCoyote.

    I hope you can get back the money somehow since they shouldn't get away with this.  It's so shameful to what they did to you.

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    Happy New Year coming into 2021. Much as 2020 has been [insert choice of creative expletive here], I have a minor update to the ongoing beware post that I have made.

     

    • Bad Coyote and Lobosan are apparently in the middle of reorganizing their processing of commissions, which will included a 3 month turnaround for commissions; should they fail to deliver a commission by that time, a refund will be issues, no questions asked.

    image.png.b92a6bd6a266d9674dc15240b595aa0c.png

     

    • As part revamping their business model, they have added on that they will be addressing issues with "customers who ignore or manipulate the terms of service, and/or who have attempted to weaponize art forums and complaint sites against BC." To that effect, they will be tracking down much harder on "customer misconduct."

    image.png.da470ba5ae8eae0d6750996fdb93d45e.png

     

    • Making a complaint against BC could be interpreted as weaponizing my post against his business, so the following consequences might be given as a result:

    image.png.2b5c78095558e1623412c486bacb1715.png

     

    Having caught up on this update, I don't know what will happen with the status of my commission going forward. However, since my communication with BC and Lobosan is limited due to being on poor terms with them, I will write this out in the event that they happen to be monitoring this post:

     

    • I would be more than happy to reach a resolution on this transaction, personal issues aside. Having to wait for two years for a commission is suspect enough to issue a complaint, and the insinuation of legal action taken against me for addressing my grievance is needless to say, discouraging.
    • I hope I am able to hold the two of you to your word that you will be able to address any outstanding commissions with professionalism, but I won't be holding my breath any time soon.

     

    In any event, should this new update come up with a resolution in the commission, I would be more than contact a mod when I can give an update on the resolution.

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    • Administrator

    This attempt by them to intimate their clients is laughable, but par the course for BadCoyote.

    Clients speaking out about negative experiences is protected by law. Perhaps BC should actually complete his work if he doesn't want people having to resort to Artists Beware.

    And whatever happened to BC "leaving the fandom"?

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    An odd thought to bring up, but since Celestina brought up that talking about negative experiences is protected by law made me think of this possibility: Could a small-claims case be brought up against Bad Coyote / CritterCanvas for the reason of 'accepting payment and not fulfilling contract' (not providing goods promised) due to the amount that was paid?

    From what I see, you have: proof of payment, approximate timeline/deadline, and the lack-of-product/lack-of-attempt seems to be a lot of evidence against the said artist.

    It may be a bit difficult if the artist and client are within local-distance of each other, but I do wonder if it is a possibility.

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    6 minutes ago, VosurAekira said:

    An odd thought to bring up, but since Celestina brought up that talking about negative experiences is protected by law made me think of this possibility: Could a small-claims case be brought up against Bad Coyote / CritterCanvas for the reason of 'accepting payment and not fulfilling contract' (not providing goods promised) due to the amount that was paid?

    From what I see, you have: proof of payment, approximate timeline/deadline, and the lack-of-product/lack-of-attempt seems to be a lot of evidence against the said artist.

    It may be a bit difficult if the artist and client are within local-distance of each other, but I do wonder if it is a possibility.

    Yes but unfortunately the costs a civil case like this would be far more than the cost of the commission itself. 

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    11 hours ago, Celestina said:

    Yes but unfortunately the costs a civil case like this would be far more than the cost of the commission itself. 

    Tacking on the cost of court/legal fees may not be of much benefit, though do some locations even go so far in the law to add an 'interest per day' in terms of unpaid contracts?

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