I became a patron on Patreon of D lo and shortly after asked (via patreon's messaging system) if they were accepting commissions.
They replied that they were. I gave them a few details about the piece I wanted and they estimated $50 USD (which seemed extremely low to me) and did not ask for anything up front.
We agreed to finalize the details via email. Note that although their gmail name is present, I have removed the header of the email chain which contained their email address to protect their privacy, as well as my own real name.
on 1/25/22 I received this email:
With the attached sketch image. I recognized it as being heavily based on a piece by ItchyEars from HentaiFoundry:
And when I double checked I realized it had actually been traced. The email notably does not mention the original artist, though it does say, "Again since it’ll be 50 USD (via PayPal), I will use some references to help out--"
It goes on to say "oh I’ll add a simple background if you’d like to? Maybe a darker scene like a graveyard or something else?" which I feel is Dlo168 suggesting that the graveyard background is their idea (it is not, it is present in the original piece that was traced).
I obviously felt misled in that what I had asked for was an original piece, not a traced piece, and the original artist had not agreed to have their art used like this. I did end up emailing ItchyEars to ask their advice and they agreed that it was in poor taste.
Dlo168 did not ask for any money up-front, and agreed to cancel the commission when asked. They were apologetic about misrepresenting the nature of the piece and agreed that they should have been upfront about its source.
the following is the full email chain after they sent me the sketch:
I commissioned Fen for a Vtuber bust model with Live2D rigging and 4 "emotions." I was originally quoted for $350, but I tipped enough to make it $500 because they'd just raised their prices after my initial sketch and I was impressed.
After I paid the $100 deposit, it took more than the one week promised to get a sketch back, but progress was coming along in a relatively timely manner. Fen was initially good at getting back to me on Discord with WIPs and letting me know they were working on my model. The turnaround from sketch to full-color was surprisingly quick, but I was extremely happy with how everything was looking. My commission was essentially ready for Live2D rigging by the end of May, so I figured the whole thing could be ready at some point later that summer.
Unfortunately, that quick pace did not carry over to the rest of the commission. After that May 31st WIP, I didn't get a single update for nearly 5 months. I knew they took commissions on other types of art and streaming assets, so I didn't mind at first. Eventually though, things just didn't seem right. I'd check their Trello regularly to see if gears were turning in the commission queue, and while there'd be new sketched here and there, the Finished Rigs list went stagnant through this whole time.
The next update I got from Fen was at the end of October. I was afraid to ask for updates through Discord because their status was always Do Not Disturb, but I decided it had been more than long enough and I sucked it up. About a week and a half after I sent my message, I got WIPs back of the expressions I asked for. I actually hadn't noticed that the expression designs hadn't been done yet, but I was still pleased to get an update and know that my commission was still on the table.
After that, it was back to radio silence for a month. By then, it had been 6 months since I paid off my invoice and I was still in "Ready to Rig" status. Especially being a Twitch streamer trying to plan overlays et al to fit with the model, I was growing even more impatient. I consulted a few friends on the matter and decided to ask for an estimated completion date. I was told December 15th at the latest. That didn't happen. In the meantime, it was apparent that Fen was doing Live2D work, just on other "quick completion" commissions that seemed to pop up out of nowhere. What added insult to injury was that they were promoting these simpler rigs with very little wait while I was still actively waiting for what I paid off in June. Then, when December 15th rolled around, they tweeted out that they were finishing a rig in just 24 hours. The next day, they were showing off a brand new rig for their partner. I lost my patience and asked to just take their PSD/CSP file so I could get someone else to rig it. No response.
What happened after was a sticky situation. On December 21st, Fen's cat suddenly got sick and they had to take him to the emergency vet. The bill was steep and they said they couldn't afford it, so they needed donations and emergency commissions to cover the necessary treatments. Between this and the holidays, I knew I was in no position to ask for a refund, full or partial, even if I was still out $500 with nothing to show on my end. I again offered to just take my file as it was and go, eating my extra cost, but still no reply.
Around New Year's, while all this was going on, Fen suddenly announced on Twitter that they'd finished two standard rigs that had been in the queue behind me. If it wasn't already, the writing was on the wall that I was being ghosted, so I gave them an ultimatum. As much as I didn't want to be the villain, if I couldn't get at least a basic reply, I threatened to file a chargeback. Within hours that same day, I finally got the CSP file with a lengthy apology. I thanked them and that was the last contact we've had with each other.
I've since been in contact with a different artist who does Live2D rigging and I commissioned them to finish the model. They've been able to work the the Clip Studio file just fine. While I'm still happy with the design Fen was able to make for me, but between the uneven progress, lack of communication, confusing management of the commission queue, broken promises, and uncertainty that I'd get what I paid for, I certainly won't be working with them again and I can't recommend them to another streamer in good faith.
Ultimately, what happened in this were severe breakdowns in communication and significantly longer gaps than expected and communicated. Particularly after the February update, I became even more uncomfortable and triggered (have since figured out why and added it to my mental model). And now, I recognize that the February update is what further had thoughts creeping in of the numerous horror stories of artists vanishing and absconding with money (after the ghosting earlier on) or rushing items below their standard of quality for the sake of completion, along with people not willing to speak up due to having anxiety over conflict or not having the spoons. This saga has taken more time, energy, and spoons than hundreds of other commissions combined. It's been an extreme outlier for my ND brain and bad for my health, though also in combination with various other factors IRL.
This took so long to report, because I'll typically trust artists to do their thing and stay out of the way. Being able to commission artists is incredibly special to me, as I'd been following a few for a decade or more before being able to fathom commissioning; it also helps me to express things, as I have processing issues. I have a couple remaining around this time-frame with no concerns, as those have all been well-communicated.
This one ended up severely festering in concerns due to the history of no replies, so it felt like there was little point in attempting more communication later on, despite being severely anxious. I mostly relied on Trello after February, as I'd not seen discord/twitter updates. I ended up leaving the discord as well due to a regular server cull after not seeing updates - still at around 50 severs between two accounts, so I don't read them all. This would've resulted in no longer being able to DM me (have DMs blocked by default but had opened on Mossling's server), though it's not something I'd thought of at the time; we also have previously established contacts on FA and twitter with email recorded via Google Forms/invoice.
After seeing the Trello card progress with no WIPs for fix confirmation sent or indication of awaiting feedback, that further set things off deeper into the spiral with an even further loss in trust. Come January when I checked the card, it vanished from queue with no contact, resulting in the next FA note. While writing the beware, I found it in archives incomplete not awaiting feedback vs at least being marked on hold. That's what set things and confirmed all fears in my mind at the time and complete loss of trust.
Regardless, accusations like that won't lead anywhere good, but deep in a spiral that I didn't recognize early enough to be able to pull out of, the logical brain wasn't there like a locomotive engineer not being on a train going max speed; it wasn't going to slow down, which led to absurdity.
I think that this has gotten far too rambly, unfortunately, so I'll just move to the screenshots.
===
This just shows initial contact via FA and moving to Google forms. Early on in commissioning, I'd intentionally wanted to help out low follower count people (super awesome to have watched some grow from 100 to over 10K) but have now mostly stuck to those I'm familiar with vs seeking out new artists.
The next four are just the Google form, where email is the preferred method of contact but went unused, and invoice. I should've just corrected this early on, as emails can't be edited. Also worth noting on the invoice is that PayPal doesn't allow for transaction fees to be charged; I found out about that later on, so I'll typically tip to counter it.
From there, it moved to discord, where I'd previously sent mentoring opportunities. Maybe that's why it went there.
Initial contact and a WIP that was deleted??, along with feedback. At this point, I was new and hadn't thought about saving WIPs, which also made it seem like no progress was made in the later image. (This was just my thought at the time; I don't know.)
Shows where I wasn't comfortable with how things were progressing and the start of the text walls x.x :
A WIP was sent after followups, not sure why it took as long as it did. At this point, I hadn't seen pings or updates in the server or on twitter and ultimately decided to leave in I'm told March during a cull. With this interaction, I'd also stopped following picarto. Note that I didn't communicate leaving the server or picarto; I was already in a bad space after this.
This one just shows the Np!, as I ran out of space but wanted to show the full window for continuity. This was taken on January 12th. Note that this Np! message will have been edited later on...
After this, there was nothing communicated. As noted before, I'd left Mossling's server, not thinking much of settings, which ended up resulting in needing to use email (original request), FA note, or twitter DM. I'll link the trello card to explain how things fell from there. I checked the trello once a week and saw it remain with only the two flags labels shown below, never awaiting feedback. I did stop checking at some point, as it seemed like an exercise in futility.
In August, I'd checked again and noticed that lines and colors were done with no feedback or WIPs. This plunged things deeper into the spiral and set off a panic (not saying this makes logical sense, but it's what happened). The numbers thing is patterning after the text wall mentioning numbers. Here, the second paragraph was meant to be offering for Wyr to be pulled and background reused elsewhere (e.g. YCH), if the background were refunded, but this makes no actual sense to me reading it now.
Going back to the trello card linked above, I checked again in January and noticed that the card was entirely missing without communication. I blew up at this point.
Just proof of email copy, but same text as above:
Search showing all emails containing mossling (and no email communication), including the email above:
Both of FA notes remained unread as I was putting together the beware.
It's at this point that I recalled that leaving the server and that it'd most likely mean not being able to DM, though we also had a shared server I could be pinged on, so I toggled settings and sent a final DM.
After sending this, FA notes both showed read and a reply was received:
This note refers to being blocked on multiple platforms, when discord was retoggling the server privacy setting. I don't know what other platforms are being referred to here that I supposedly blocked on. FA, email, and twitter have all been untouched.
Still furious, I was unsympathetic with a shitty reply vs if it'd had been prior to the card being archived with no communication. "IRL's shit, will be back" would've been enough prior to the card vanishing with reasoning behind why it was archived, because at the point of archive, the note hadn't even been read.
And then this is the final note:
Going back to discord DM today, I see that it's been edited.
And that's everything, I think.
The client I would like to report is known as Piscurio/Pisquared.
They are a former client and patron who saw fit to terminate their commission halfway through, as well as all communications while I was away for college, etc. The reason I am posting this beware is because now, after over a year, they have returned and are trying to use threats and blackmail to receive a refund when it is explicitly stated in my Terms of Service that I do not give refunds once the work has begun. Unless no work had been done yet/the commission is still waiting in 'queue', or I am unable to continue due to being hospitalized for longer than a period of 1 week, the refunds will not be given. Two separate clients have received refunds from me in the past following this policy. Once who was still in queue and needed to back out, as well as one in 2019 where I could not work as I had been fully hospitalized.
Prior to this issue, the user received artwork from me in the form of patreon rewards. They claimed their tier’s ability to have a custom sketch done of their character, which was completed 09/17/20. They were very happy with the result and voiced no issues and we had a fairly strong relationship at the time.
Prior to commissioning me fully, the user attempted to ‘haggle’ with my prices. I did not see this as a red flag initially and ignored it at the time in favor of giving them the benefit of the doubt and explaining to them why my prices were the way they were, etc. They then disappeared for some months, only to come back and go through with commissioning me at a lower price.
The Issue
The commission inquiry was made on the 09/04/20 with payment given on the 10/30/20. No set deadline was discussed with the client and they were aware that I am a college student with health issues and therefore take time working, shown by their references and thus awareness of this later on. Regardless of however long the commission would take to complete, it was clear I would honor it.
Please review Image 0.
As time went on, they began to grow impatient despite knowing that they were listed under ‘queued’ and would be until the commissions I was currently working on at the time were finished. Complaints were made and I moved them to ‘In Progress’ on November 8th, 2020 to put them at ease. An unwatermarked WIP image with the linework nearly completed was then sent to the client around November 27th, wherein small errors in the design were pointed out. These errors were made due to the client’s reference being largely unclear, but it was promised that the mistakes would be fixed and were fixed at a later date. The WIP was posted again on my discord server, where they were a member.
The unwatermarked sketch, however, was deleted from direct messages when I realized the client was posting it online into their own gallery without permission. The issue was later resolved over a stream on Picarto, where I whispered them privately. The user was an active viewer of my streams at the time and would often visit to watch for several hours on end, the content of which included their own commission on many occasions. On December 11th, I marked on Trello that the sketching phase had been completed, as I had fully moved on to lineart by then. I was struggling a lot medically around this time, hence the delay in Trello being updated compared to discord.
Despite having expedited their commission (moving it ahead of two others), starting and completing roughly half the work, the client asked for a full refund on January 31st of 2021.
In response, I explained to them their options, reminded them of my terms, and once again informed them that refunds were not guaranteed at this stage. The commission was already past the sketch phase at this point, despite the client’s words, as can be seen in the earlier image of their character. While it was not complete at the time, it was well underway and at roughly 98%.
I attempted to put their concerns at ease by informing them of other customers who had and were waiting just as long for their commissions, all of which were roughly the same level of complexity and cost as this client’s. It was also explained that I would, regardless of how long it took, complete the commission.
Given that this was at the height of the pandemic, and evacuation orders were being given to neighboring colleges in response, I was often unable to respond to long periods of time. However, clients remained informed of this and whenever an update was available on my condition, their commissions, and the like. In the case of this client, I offered to DM them directly when my next stream would start so that they would be informed and could watch their commissions being worked on. The client refused and stated that they had alerts on. The third WIP image was sent to them shortly after.
Some weeks later, they left my server, blocked me via discord, and discontinued communication with me. I attempted to reach them and sent a friend request via discord to try and reestablish communication, but they never accepted it. Confused, I continued to work on the commission to near completion.
With the sketching phase marked as complete, I did not mark off the next stage (lining) until much later. The reason for this being I was still trying to reestablish contact with my client and had questions that prevented me from finishing this step fully. Despite this, I continued on with the background while I waited.
*The dates in this image as of Dec 11th will be further explained below.
However, my time working was not without issues. I was forced to not work due to my laptop dying in March. Following this, my college issued an evacuation order in response to a breakout of COVID-19 on campus. Regardless, I continued to inform my clients and sever members of these problems via discord announcements and so on.
Unfortunately, the border of my country closed for several months mere hours before I could return home and I was forced to return to the US. They did not open until May 27th, which was around the same time I was allowed to arrive home being on the first flight back. From there, I updated my website, my Trello, and continued working. On June 1st, I resolved that I had waited long enough for my client to reappear and went ahead with marking off both Lining and Color as I had now completed those two steps. This was done tentatively with steps taken to allow corrections should they return.
On August 28th, 2021, Pisqcurio sent me a message and demanded I terminate their commission for lack of communication – despite them having blocked me – and alluded that I should give them a refund while fully aware that I would not be due to the commission having been almost completed at the time of termination. Due to rising medical issues and having just returned to college, I was not active on FA and for that I take full responsibility.
On January 11th, 2022, the client reapproached me with threats of defamation and claimed I manipulated and gaslighted them when I did not. Their message was accompanied by another over discord that also included more threats, insults, and the promise to continue to harass me. Again, they asked for a refund despite knowing my terms of service and all the work that had been done. They also claimed to have sent an email to me regarding the issue, but I, to this day, have never received an email from them.
As can be seen by the above image, I am still, to this day, blocked by them and unable to communicate via discord. We share a server, as can be seen by the image following it, which shows that it is a block and not just us not being in the same community. Upon checking FA, I saw that I was no longer blocked and responded with a message to explain my side of the story while also trying to reason with them.
The response I received showed their refusal to cooperate or come to an understanding.
I responded with a reminder of what happened, once again, and finally blocked them. I am not proud of this message, but I am including it as well.
Edit 01.19.22
Another important thing to note is that the client claims to have emailed me on January 11th, 2022. I checked both my emails and found this;
Absolutely nothing. Hence, either they sent their email to the wrong person or fabricated it. I do not have any emails dated on the 11th of January, 2022 from this client and have never received one since from 09/04/2020 to 01/19/2022. What I do have are a total of four twitter notifications and a Buzzly activation email.
I checked my gmail as a courtesy, but only the one on outlook is provided or associated with the public and used as my work email.
- The agreement was for 13 twitch emotes at the cost of $15 for each emote. Was a total of $195 but I rounded up to $200 (Proof in attached files)
- Proof of payment is in attached files below
- Here is the entire archive of the conversation between myself and the artist. I originally contacted them via twitter and after getting no responses for several months I resorted to messaging them on discord where I got a few responses.
I blurred my name and the art due to not wanting to be recognized and harassed. I fear a public backlash due to their large following.
I tipped an additional $5 for rushing the two emotes requested, and received no reply afterwards.
I contacted Deermoonstudios on Etsy for a fursuit head for $750 (which totalled $804 with taxes). This was paid in full immediately, followed by them stating they had just ordered fur colors needed for the suit after my approval. All on the same day. I waited a little over a month before asking them about progress, to which they said the fur had just arrived and they were waiting on more pieces to arrive in the mail. In Sep I asked for another update, no response, I asked again on the 20th and got told a day later that the head was ready for taping and sorry for the delay. On Nov 2nd 2021 I asked again for a picture, since I never got one. No response, I sent another message on the 14th asking if they saw the previous message, no response. In Dec, I got a little upset and messages them again asking for a picture, still no response. After this I looked for their Twitter, to see if they were busy with life or something. I learned they were pretty active on Twitter and I created an account to message them. Still no response, but they did post a tweet about how they have a hard time responding to messages and complaining that people need to stop guilt tripping them. I'm unsure if this was directed at me, but I took note of it and messaged them on etsy one last time to apologize if I had ever made them uncomfortable, and that I would no longer message them. I've given up and am assuming I'll never get the product I paid for. They had finished one (provable here) fursuit head in the meantime, fairly quickly. As of right now (Jan 6 2022), I still have gotten no response from them. They do not accept refunds on their products. They were polite in messages but have seemingly ghosted me.
Back on September 16th, I commissioned the user Azhakuiin for a chibi and a fullbody.
On September 28th, I was sent a sketch of the chibi and satisfied, I gave the okay to continue. 10 days passed after that with no word, so I texted them to see how things were going. On October 1st I recieved a text back saying they'd thought they sent it, but must not have and sent me the finished chibi. They also mention having been working on several sketches for the fullbody, which they would work on getting to me.
On the 14th of October, I text them again inquiring about the progress of the sketches. On October 17th, I get a response from them saying they had a medical intervention and hadn't been able to be on in a few days. They then send 2 unfinished sketches to show progress and say they'll be trying to work through their commission schedule this month.
I responded saying I loved the second sketch and I hope they get well soon.
They still haven't viewed my response to this day, and that was the last contact we had. They haven't been active on TH since then according to their stats.
After a month of silence, I started getting anxious so I messaged them on deviantart, saying who I was and that I wanted to check in. That message also hasn't been viewed.
On December 10th, after seeing some activity on their Twitter, I messaged them there saying mostly the same thing. That also hasn't been viewed.
I messaged them again on the 28th, after seeing some activity in their likes, but also no response.
[Mod Note: Artist has turned off DMs on all, making private contact impossible.]
So as a last ditch effort, I sent them an email on Dec 30th saying that basically I'd tried to contact them numerous times and if they can't complete the art then I would take a refund. I also mention if they don't respond, I will file a dispute.
Though, what I didn't realize when writing that, is the money was sent via friends and family, which means I cannot dispute it.
So seeing as they haven't responded to the email either, it just means I'm out of luck. So instead of the dispute, I figured I'd make this to warn others.
[Mod note: Further contact has been attempted recently; no direct response was provided to the client. They have opted to lock their public accounts in response.]
*Just something to note, but unfortunately the ych commishes website doesn't have exact time stamps, only a rough estimate*
In the beginning of February of last year, I won an auction of Mazik's on the ych commishes site with a bid of $75.
After I sent her my PayPal email and refs, Mazik asked if I wanted to add on a background to the YCH at a discounted rate, which I accepted (bring the total from $75 to $110). She then sent me an invoice on February 10th which I paid immediately.
Only after paying it did she tell me that there was going to be a delay in the art because of problems she was having. I didn't think much of it and told her that it was fine, and not too long after I got a WIP so I figured things were back on track.
After a long wait without any update, Mazik came back and told me that another issue had come up and that she'd have the art ready by the end of the week. Again, I didn't think much of it and told her that I was fine with it.
After another long wait I asked Mazik for an update, and she told me that she thought she had already sent me another WIP. I received another update and gave her my approval on it, but then the silence started again.
On the 7th of September I sent her an email asking for an update, as well as a message on the ych website informing her of the email.
On the 9th and 11th of September I messaged her through twitter asking again for an update. She responded to me on the 11th telling me that she had trouble accessing her ych commishes account, and that the art was ready. The next day she posted a google drive link with the art.
She added me on discord on the 12th and we began to discuss the entire process. I also pointed out that the art in the google drive folder didn't have the background that I paid for, and also asked for a clothed version of one of the pics. She agreed to fix everything up, and then on the 15th told me that she had yet another problem and would need more time. This was actually the last time that she contacted me.
I messaged her on twitter multiple times after this asking for an update, but still with no response. I'm trying not to be too pushy with the messages but really it's been far too long.
I'm a writer who is commissioned to write mostly growth/macro stories, and have been at it since 2013. In this time I've taken over 60 jobs which have all been read, approved and paid by every single client.
My DeviantArt ToS: https://www.deviantart.com/blackspyro33/journal/Official-Terms-of-Service-for-Commissions-2021-485184088
I have always operated on an honor system with every single client. I don't set completion dates, I don't take advance payments. People read the final product, they tell me if they're happy with it or if they require alterations/additions, and then I get paid.
I was first approached by Darkgai on September 10th, 2021, as the third slot in a queue of public commissions. Our correspondence was civil and well-mannered for the most part.
Since Darkgai was the third in a queue of three and I don't work on multiple commissions at once, he was made to wait until I was done with the two before him.
Unfortunately, circumstances forced me into my full-time job earlier in the year than I expected. All commissions were worked at at a slower pace. This led me to unusually higher waiting times, including Darkgai, who asked me about his commission.
I decided to give him an update about why I was taking so long, since it's unusual for me to make a customer wait so long.
Finally, at about 00:15 on December 31st, I sent the finished story to the client as explained in the ToS he had agreed to. Instructions were given, and I received critique and engaged in a minor dispute that I believed had reached a positive conclusion for us both. Thinking the issue resolved, I waited for three hours and found no evidence of the guy sending payment, and he has yet to reply to my last inquiry.
As the (current) DeviantArt correspondence from earlier shows, visiting Darkgai's dA will show it as disabled. When I first saw it like that after 3 hours of radio silence I feared the worst. I made this person wait. I explained my situation. I delivered my agreed upon interpretation of his wishes. I saw dissatisfaction and attempted to find an alternative solution. We agreed on a price slash since he did not want modifications.
He paid my time and effort with indifference and avoidance. I dedicated time and effort when I knew I couldn't instead of giving up to the pressure and finished a product that he allegedly found okay except for certain parts which I offered to touch up. Seeing as though our interpretations became irreconciliable, I decided to offer a hefty discount which is basically giving up my claim to time and effort I am not getting back to meet him somewhere I deemed appropriate. He told me he was going to pay me. He hasn't. He deleted his dA, and I take it as him avoiding me. I take it as him avoiding his responsibility to pay what he owes me for the story I wrote. I do not want anybody else to have to suffer through this annoyance ever again.
I commissioned this artist for a chibi back in march, as well as a headshot in april, and never received either nor the promised refund, and my notes since then have been opened and read but ignored.
here's the original chibi listing:
as well as the headshot one:
(both still standing as of this submission, albeit with comments off)
and my comments under each:
the notes confirming both, March 17th and April 28th, respectively:
and the paypal transactions:
(side note, the email appears to be her mate's, another artist, rather than her own, which doesn't help her case)
I poked her june 25th, to no response:
again 5 days later:
and only after I saw just how long the trello queue was and directly requested a refund the 5th of july did I get a reply and promise of refund:
I waited several months, until november 25th, to prod her again:
and several more weeks to continued lack of communication or any amount of refund:
all while constantly posting MORE ychs, commissions, and art, having turned off comments on submissions and the few journals that have not since been nuked, and not updating the trello list since september:
my payoff for patiently waiting long past paypal's 3 month cutoff date was to lose any chance of getting my money back through a dispute:
I know in the long-run it's not a huge amount of money, but it's money I could've spent actually receiving desired art, and it just leaves such a bad taste how this artist treats 'clients' 😞
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