Commissioned a fursuit recently, concerned about quality.

[SomftLynx]

Not mentioning the artists name or posting pictures just yet since they still have time to correct. I'm just seeking advice right now.

Story; fursuit creator I like a lot on twitter opened up for a head commission. I jumped on the opportunity and sent them the reference for a character I've wanting to have made in to a suit for a while. Today I receive photographs of the suit head and it's honestly terrible. It's far below the quality of their previous works. It looks completely different to even previous heads of the same species they've made. I have voiced my concerns to them that this is FAR below my expectations based on their previous work.

So far I have contacted 6 different artists I regularly deal with, one of which has made me a fursuit in the past, about this issue; they all agree when comparing the head I comm'd and their previous work that the quality disparity is BIG and all have urged me to start a paypal dispute today. I mostly did this because I've never had an issue commissioning work before and was unsure if i'm being an asshole or something and needed a bit of reassurance.

Should I dispute? Would paypal even care about a dispute over the quality of a custom made item compared to their previous work? Like, the head is technically done, and promptly at that, it's just awful. 

Should I offer an option to fix/redo the head to their previous standards, or go straight for full refund? I don't believe it has been shipped yet, it's still within paypals 20 days.

[Eden]

First step is to voice your concerns to this builder.  Are the issues potentially fixable, or does the head have to be rebuilt entirely?  Paypal disputes should be your last option, but you may be between a rock and a hard place if the head needs extensive reworking and you're close to the deadline of 180 days.

So, first contact them.  If they refuse to fix the issues then it may be time to pursue a refund.  If they can fix it, consider if you may want to be out of Paypal protection or not.

Going to tag some other folks as they have more experience with suits:  @Dergish @Bornes @Featherbutt @snowhawk

[Bornes]

I'm with Celistina, unless you have decided you'd prefer the refund over the head. If you open a dispute, it will be closed in 20 days. Let's assume the maker wouldn't just send you what they have and try to redo it anyway. 20 days is going to be extremely rushed.... again. There's no telling if they will be willing (or even able) to make the correction in that timeframe.

Talk tot he maker about correcting/redoing the head, and if the situation doesn't seem good, ask for a refund. The maker may be willing to work with you. Maybe you could compromise and get a partial refund and recieve the head as-is. Or they could tear it down and give you the base. Who knows.

I'm not sure how paypal would rule on somethign that's delivered but not up to quality, but if the difference is as obvious as you say it is, they'd probably rule in your favor.

At this point, it's really all about how much you trust this maker to make the situation right.

[SomftLynx]

I've gotten in contact with the artist and they have said I can ship it back and they'll try to fix it. The main issue is the eyes/brow shape and position, but other things like the hair and ears are also poor and off model; I'm not a expert on making fursuits (which is why I comm :v) but I'm struggling to think of a reality where this could actually be -repaired-.

 

Is it kosher to start the dispute now to get that process going just in case and to withhold the funds? I'm kind of worried that they'll be unwilling/unable to repair it now that they have my funds and will just dump it in the perpetual "to do" pile.

Edited September 19, 2019 by SomftLynx

[Bornes]

13 minutes ago, SomftLynx said:

Is it kosher to start the dispute now to get that process going just in case and to withhold the funds? I'm kind of worried that they'll be unwilling/unable to repair it now that they have my funds.

NO
DO NOT DO THAT

So if I'm understanding you correctly, they already sent you the fursuit head?
Where are you at in the paypal claim window? How long has this commission been ongoing? You have 180 days from the date you paid the invoice to file a claim.

If they've said they are willing to repair it (at no cost), then they're likely willing to repair it.
If you'd rather have a refund, you need to tell the maker that.

I'm having a hard time following why you think this maker is out to scam you. It seems you've already decided that's what's happening, despite them appearing to work with you on this. From what you've given here, the maker hasn't been difficult to deal with and is attending to your concerns. Yes, the lack of quality in your head is troubling, but there are so many reasons why that can happen that has absolutely nothing to do with you (or a potential scamming).

I think you might be confused as to how paypal claims and disputes work. A dispute only gives the seller 20 days to address your concerns. 20 days for fursuit things is not enough time to get anything good quality. And this is setting aside the time needed for shipping back and forth. If you escalate your dispute to a claim, the money in their paypal account gets frozen and it effectively forces them to stop business to only focus on you. This is something you should only do as A LAST RESORT.

With art, there's a chance you'll get your piece in these circumstances. But you've ordered material, custom-made goods. There's a much higher chance that you will not receive anything back and just get refunded, forever blacklisted from that maker and possibly badmouthed to other makers.

I understand you're worried, and that is fine. If you want your fursuit head fixed, give the maker the benefit of the doubt here that they are willing and able to do it.

If you don't think the maker can actually fix it, and/or you just don't want the head anymore, give them a chance to work with you. Don't be a jerk by freezing their funds and potentially halting their business. Especially over something where (again, if I am reading this situation correctly), the maker actually seems very willing to work with you.

Now, if you are close to the 180 day window closing, that's slightly different. But from what I am reading of your posts, you are not near the end of that 180 day window, so you have plenty of time to solve this amicably without paypal getting involved.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Bornes
Fixed claims vs. disputes verbiage

[Eden]

1 hour ago, SomftLynx said:

Is it kosher to start the dispute now to get that process going just in case and to withhold the funds? I'm kind of worried that they'll be unwilling/unable to repair it now that they have my funds and will just dump it in the perpetual "to do" pile.

What Bornes said is good.  I just want to add:

You're likely to lose the claim if you file without giving the artist proper time to fix the issue.  The only option that would apply to you is "item is not as described".  Filing it anywhere else will have your claim closed.  When Paypal accepts an "item not described" you have to provide proof that this wasn't what you ordered. 

In addition, business accounts that have a history with Paypal have reputation points that users can't see.  There's a sort of "fast lane" for business Paypal accounts that they earn by being good sellers.  Filing a claim before the maker has had a chance to fix the issue is not kosher as it could knock them out of the fast lane status.  Claims should be your absolute last resort.

[SomftLynx]

I was wondering what to do just because I know paypal has a 20-day window is all. This is my first time really being in a situation where I don't want to pay for or accept art in its current status, or anything like this, I just want to protect myself. I've never had to do a claim or anything, this is all new to me, sorry.

 

The suit was already shipped by the time I levied the complaints to the artist. The artist has gotten back to me and apologized for the issue, saying they attempted a new style they have little experience with. Personally, I think it's because it was rushed for some quick cash - the head went from funds transferred to completed and delivered in under a week, which is unheard of. Before this the shortest wait I've ever had on a fursuit head was 2 months. I'm pretty sure the issue is a poor, rushed head carve.

The artist has said I can send it back to be fixed. The artist says that replacing the eyes should make it not look so... Uncanny valley and unprofessional. I own 4 fursuits (and a total of 6 heads :v) so I think I know enough about them to know if it'll be something that can be fixed with new eyes, fur, etc. or if it'd need a new base, and thus redoing entirely.

 

If I think it can be repaired and brought to the artists previous standards then I'll go ahead with that. I still want the head and from this artist, they're usually really good, so I'll happily wait for it to be done properly.

 

If I think it's a base issue like I suspect and not something that can be fixed by changing fixtures, then I'm not sure what to do. I don't really want to demand starting a project over, I know that's a lot of time and effort. I think it'd be easier on both of us in that case just to send it back on my dime and refund and be done with this mess, and they can sell it off as a premade.

[SomftLynx]

shipped* not delivered, it's still in transit.

[Bornes]

6 hours ago, SomftLynx said:

I was wondering what to do just because I know paypal has a 20-day window is all.

Paypal has a 180 day window.

If you file a dispute, the dispute has a 20 day window.

You have 180 days from the time you paid the invoice to file a dispute or claim. If at any point you file a dispute, only then does the window become 20 days. When the dispute is closed (or escalated to a claim and that claim is resolved), the transaction is completely over and there's nothing you can do, regardless of what day you opened the claim originally.

So since the head has taken such a short time to be completed, I would wait nearly the full 180 days before even thinking about a claim, to give the maker some time to fix this. Regarding your concerns, yes, many times a maker "fixing" something is tearing apart most or all of it and starting over. But usually it is easier to use the old base instead of making a new one.

180 days is approximately 6 months.

You have plenty of time unless you paid the invoice nearly 6 months ago.

[SomftLynx]

I was under the impression it was 20 days to take action, ok that makes me feel a lot safer in this transaction now 😛