Eden

Unfortunately, there's not much you can do beyond going public.  (Please bear in mind not to post their name in this thread.)  The moment the claim started going south, the proper thing to do would have been to call Paypal.  They are much more efficient once you are talking to a live human being.  Your only other option is to file a chargeback through your credit card, but that's not possible if you didn't pay with a credit card.

1.  You can most certainly make a post on this person.  However, before you do that I would either set a deadline for completion or a deadline for a refund first.  It doesn't sound like they take commission work all too seriously (especially at that price), and you may be in limbo indefinitely unless you really put your foot down.

2.  The second one also is going to require an ultimatum.  Are they reading your notes at all or are they unread?  Either way, tell them communication needs to improve or you'd like a refund.

Also you left the artist's name in the second situation.  Please remember all posts are to be anonymous.

I absolutely would not.  They're attempting to guilt trip you to send over art that they knew they couldn't afford.  It's not your problem if they don't get it by Christmas.  Tell them no, stand firm.  Don't justify or argue with them.  Just tell them how much is due and leave it at that. 

On 12/1/2019 at 11:18 PM, theodor said:

Would posting in the general forum be okay then?

Sure!  That's a good idea. :)

7 hours ago, Nimblebutt said:

Looking back at the screencaps I have about 80, in which artist admits during original comission (which I paid for ages ago) they'd forgotten to finish certain things (and were supposed to here.)

Should I submit all 80 screencaps or? XD

Submit what's relevant and remove idle chit chat. 

Howdy!  Your post was in the wrong spot, so I went ahead and moved it.  All advice posts are to be anonymous, so the second post with the images in question was hidden.

Oh gosh I'm sorry to be responding to this late.  We specifically talked about this in the mod chat, and then everyone got swamped with work irl.  No, we don't have a spot, and don't realllyyy have plans for one.  The general forum is pretty dead, and it's probably best not to spread ourselves too thin.

So was there an agreement for payment?  You mention doing repairs for free at a con, and then say you'll add length to the arms for shipping.  How much did you quote them to repair the suit itself?

Unfortunately hindsight is 20/20, but when you open a dispute and escalate to a claim it's always best to call PayPal. Never use their automated system.

Was this tracking number related to your transaction? If not call PayPal immediately. Despite the transaction being closed you can still try and have it reversed. If you paid with a credit card, you can open a dispute with them. If it's a bank account not so much.

If all of that fails, then there's not much you can do, I'm sorry. (Except write up a beware.)

Good luck!

Hey @Alkraas!  I didn't receive a response from you, so I went ahead and cleaned up your post now that I have a spare moment.  Also going to boost it on Twitter.

From a business perspective they really need to make you a new one, or you can accept a partial refund if you like the end product enough to keep it.

I went ahead and pinged our fursuit mods in the mod chat and posted this to twitter.  It sounds like you're nearing the time where an ultimatum would be appropriate and/or a beware.

Inform them that international shipping can take around a month. If German postal usually shows packages as delivered when it hits the final destination, let them know you'll be monitoring the tracking number. If it doesn't show delivery status once it hits the US, tell them to keep an eye out and let you know if it doesn't arrive after a month.

I've recieved plenty of shipments from Europe, and usually things are at my doorstep well before a month.

They more than likely placed the bid, but didn't want to contact you directly to retract it.  I would just relist it.

🙂  It seems like you've got a good amount of advice.  I'll go ahead and lock this for you.

Howdy!

As some folks may have already noticed a beware was pulled due to no longer meeting our standards.  The time frame the submitter waited wasn't so short that we'd toss it automatically, but we didn't have a set minimum time frame to specifically reject it.  After much discussion we ultimately decided to install a 4 month minimum waiting period for all non-delivery only.  This doesn't include large projects, to-be-made items like fursuits and sculptures; only your standard art commission and ready to ship items.

Four months gives plenty of time for most commissions to be completed and for items to be mailed.  An artist's situation will be considered on whether or not they'll receive a beware or a caution.

The tags for the Dogspitt post were removed from the system, and their post has been removed from social media.  We are grateful to our users who have voiced their opinions to us.  If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact any admin.

It could be that there wasn't anything in their roster that would go for $30 for two characters. I know I don't personally, not even headshots.

Edit:  Although let me give you a more specific answer, even though this really feels more like a vent post than an advice post:

I've seen people run PWYW streams in a variety of ways.  Some are like you were expecting:  Individuals can come with any amount and get anything that matches with that level.  Or I've seen folks who are open for the range in their roster of commissions, and accept items that are near what the client asked for.  From observation and some personal experience the former tends to draw more nitpicky clients.  Either way, individuals are allowed to decline commissions regardless of what they are labeled as.  $30 for two characters is not a lot for a lot of artists, and they aren't in the wrong for turning you down.  

I've commissioned two custom items that aren't fursuits:  A hoodie and a plushie.

Both times I received WIP pictures, but wasn't asked to pick fabric colors.  As a customer I'd be weirded out by this, too.  It isn't like you wouldn't be able to study the pattern once you have the plushie, so their reasoning for withholding WIPs is odd.

48 minutes ago, theodor said:

How do you accept a refund for a cash commission?

I purchased a commission at a con, and it seems to be going downhill. Getting cash back isnt an option. Should I push for e-transfer, or paypal while they pay the fee?
And if they demand paypal but they dont cover the fee, and I am out money, then what?

Paypal or sending via Zelle are options.  If Paypal just bear in mind they can file a claim to get it back.  Alternatively it can be sent back Friends and Family.

Zelle is a direct bank to bank transfer in the US (If that's where you're at), but it does require you to give out your real name and bank account number.  Obviously that may not be ideal for you, but there's also no fees involved and they can't pull the funds back.

29 minutes ago, theodor said:

I thought it was an error the first time, but this happens to me all the time!

I never really changed any of the settings, so whatever the basic is?

https://artistsbeware.info/beware/  If you go to here can you see any of them?

Okay!  Should be fixed.  Please let us know if it happens again!  Thank you.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.  This is strange, because those are items in the active queue and should be hidden to only moderators.  We'll get with Alex to see what's going on.  What theme are you using?  Broadside?

Quote

What's the point, is it a countermeasure agaisnt art theft?

That's precisely it.  Giving away the working file presumably at working resolution means that you'll have a much easier time making prints ect.  If a client approached me asking for a full res working file on commission I'd be wary this individual is trying to angle for what is supposed to be a work-for-hire at commission prices.  Meaning at the end of the transaction a work-for-hire client gets full copyright transfer, commercial rights, and the working files so they can do whatever they'd like with the end result.  The only thing I'd keep as per our contract is display rights for my commercial portfolio.  The difference between a work-for-hire and a commission is that work-for-hire projects are 3 - 5x the cost of a normal commission.

Not only are you going to have a hard time finding individuals who are willing to give away their working files, you're also going to find it hard to convince folks to let you make edits to their work after the fact.  That would mean that if you do a poor job editing, then it can be their reputation on the line.  It's just not something that's very common in this fandom.

1 hour ago, SomftLynx said:

Is it kosher to start the dispute now to get that process going just in case and to withhold the funds? I'm kind of worried that they'll be unwilling/unable to repair it now that they have my funds and will just dump it in the perpetual "to do" pile.

What Bornes said is good.  I just want to add:

You're likely to lose the claim if you file without giving the artist proper time to fix the issue.  The only option that would apply to you is "item is not as described".  Filing it anywhere else will have your claim closed.  When Paypal accepts an "item not described" you have to provide proof that this wasn't what you ordered. 

In addition, business accounts that have a history with Paypal have reputation points that users can't see.  There's a sort of "fast lane" for business Paypal accounts that they earn by being good sellers.  Filing a claim before the maker has had a chance to fix the issue is not kosher as it could knock them out of the fast lane status.  Claims should be your absolute last resort.

You have until October 28th to decide if you want the art.  After that day your ability to file a dispute with Paypal will disappear.

First thing's first:  If you want the art set an ultimatum with the artist.  They complete the art before Oct 20th, or you'll need a refund.

Second:  If you don't want the art anymore, just ask for a refund now.  If they say they can't, well you'll have to decide if you want to file that claim.  Just be aware that if you do file the claim, the "okay friendship" you have going on is over.

If you do end up filing for a claim, be sure to call Paypal if you're able to.

First step is to voice your concerns to this builder.  Are the issues potentially fixable, or does the head have to be rebuilt entirely?  Paypal disputes should be your last option, but you may be between a rock and a hard place if the head needs extensive reworking and you're close to the deadline of 180 days.

So, first contact them.  If they refuse to fix the issues then it may be time to pursue a refund.  If they can fix it, consider if you may want to be out of Paypal protection or not.

Going to tag some other folks as they have more experience with suits:  @Dergish @Bornes @Featherbutt @snowhawk