Beware: kinodraws

Whoofa, this is actually a friend of mine, so I'm even more doubly sorry to see this. I understand exactly how you feel all that being said, since I'm in the camp of "I don't really mind a long wait as long as I'm receiving clear communication".

I passed on this caution to them and we had a talk, friend-to-friend, since I agree the lack of communication isn't great, but as an insider I understand how it came to be that way. I talked with them about essentially setting up a public list of their refund queue of just names, so people can be up-to-date about where they stand on the refund, and also about organising essentially a bi-weekly BCC mass email "newsletter" to any commissioners that want it, to keep people updated on how the refund queue is coming along and any life issues that popped up that may delay things. They should organise that over this week and hopefully you will receive an email about that. If you don't, please feel free to reply to me and if you're comfortable you can private message me with your email and I will pass it along to Kino to make sure it's on the list.

They fully agree they didn't do a great job with communicating and in their own words:

Quote

"I am shitty at responding to emails and I just gotta do better, that’s all there is to it."

57 minutes ago, rikki said:

-snip-

Hi! I understand your point, but you misunderstood what I was saying or else I misrepresented it. I didn't handhold Kino through how to handle this or instruct them on what to do. We talked, as friends, about good steps to take and they were the one that talked about doing a public queue and sending emails. At most I just validated them and helped them with wording.

Kino is literally taking the initiative by organising their queue, writing it out, posting it, writing emails, sending emails, organising the BCC list, etc. I don't want to turn this into a discussion how valid it is or is not for me as a friend to talk to my friend about an issue they are having, I just want to clarify a misunderstanding due to my own fault in not clearly communicating things.

I am not acting as a proxy for Kino, OP is free to bypass me entirely and contact Kino about this, which is what they should do anyway? Nor was I ever requested to act as one? I am just someone here who has had an account for AB already and occasionally has commented and was commenting mostly in my capacity as an AB community member with extra information. My offer is only insofar as "you got lost in the shuffle once, which sucks, and if you wish I could be sure to send Kino a reminder with your details to make sure it doesn't happen again for extra security." I'm not intending to run communications with Kino's clients, that's not really my problem and I have no interest in it, nor do I believe I ever expressed as much. I literally just said I'd pass on one single email.

Also, artists hire managers all the time to organise things like client communications as a third party, while at most I am just passing on a message as a friend. If an artist can recognise that they have a fault or shortcoming in handling something, it is not irresponsible to turn to someone for help in picking up the slack so they can put their focus where it needs to be. It would be irresponsible to insist based on pride or mis-directed "professionalism" to do something that you yourself recognise overwhelms you, to the ultimate detriment of your clients. An artist who disconnects completely without warning or explanation until a third party has to step in to handle things is a different story, but that's really not what we're talking about here.

I won't be responding further should this message be approved because I don't really want to derail the conversation, and tried to keep my response as pertinent to the actual subject as possible in that regard. As I said, I was only trying to clarify my own miscommunication of the situation, and I understand 100% where you're coming from as, I said, I am also a member of this site and have seen similar situations. I only hope I was able to more clearly express what I meant.

On 12/20/2021 at 11:48 PM, flucket said:

-snip-

Hi Flucket, thanks for the comment / update; I can confirm that I did receive an email from Kino relaying pretty much what you said, which I do appreciate. Before I was sent that email, I received one wherein Kino asked if I could email them on their next paid day, to remind them to send some, if not all of my refund. I was, at the time, frustrated that the onus was put on me to reach out first once again, so this potential solution really and truly is appreciated. 

That being said, I can only reiterate Rikki; that this should not have needed a third party getting involved to help this matter get settled. I’m bummed out that things escalated to the point where I felt I needed to post on a pubic forum but it seems that it was necessary to get the ball rolling a little quicker.  

Furthermore, while I am thankfully in an okay place financially, my heart goes out to the others who are also waiting on their refunds, especially if they are not in the same position as me and were given a date to expect the refund, only to not receive it. 

Also, while I appreciate the quote from them, I know for a fact that they aren’t shitty at responding or need to get better at doing so, as I have commissioned them previously-- though, messaging then was done via twitter. There was one lapse in communication during that particular commission in which they gave me a heads up, stating they were working on a project and were not able to prioritise comms for a while. Once that project was done, they messaged me updates without issue.

If the current lapse in communication is because Life Happens or even because the past two years have been terrible and chaotic for pretty much everyone the world over, like I said, I completely understand. I just wanted to be afforded common courtesy or even be told ‘message me on twitter, as I check that more often’. 

One of my worries of using AB was that people might misconstrue what I have said / make assumptions about my post / dogpile me. I know you have done none of that but I feel like I need say this regardless; that nothing in my initial post above is said with any kind of malice. I merely wanted to let people know that Kino is currently not the best with communication and to keep that in mind when commissioning them, so that people can manage their expectations accordingly. 

And to @rikki  ; thank you for your replies to Flucket. They’re succinct and I honestly don’t think I could have found the words to say it better myself. 

I'm still relatively new to the site and I don't want to add edits to my post until this issue has been fully resolved but if anyone is curious about updates; there has been none. I am still awaiting my refund.

Another update; I emailed Kino on 12/03/2022, as I still haven't heard back from them since I last emailed them, asking if there's any update RE: the Google doc or trello they were going to set up to track refunds. They still haven't set it up and I'm still waiting on a full refund. 

Last month was a year since I was told I would be getting a refund. 6 more months and it'll be 2 years since I sent them they $160.00. I'm starting to think I might not get this money any time soon, if at all.

Another 'No Update' update. I emailed Kino again on Thursday 24th March, two weeks after they said they would work on the tracking for refunds. I've yet to get a response.

While scrolling through Tumblr earlier, I saw that they've made a post about doing free tattoos. Which is totally their purgative but I've got to say it stings; they have time to do that and not work on a Google Doc or Trello. Also while I don't know their financial situation, I feel that doing that would be a good opportunity to gather the funds needed for mine, and presumably other people's, refunds. 

Link to that post for those who want to see it, or even those are in the area they are and fancy a free tattoo;

 https://kinomatika.tumblr.com/post/679806082943746048/lemme-put-ink-into-your-skin

This issue has now been resolved; I am just about to go to work but once I'm back, I will post screenshots showing what has happened.

Following the advice of some friends, who all said I had been fair too kind and patient with this situation, I emailed Kino essentially saying enough was enough. They had the time to offer a free service but not refund me/keep in touch with me, which was unacceptable and disrespectful. 

This was apparently all it took because they responded with an apology, refunded me and sent extra money almost immediately. Still no word on if a spreadsheet has been set up for any other refunds they owe though.

As I've said here previously, this was not about the money; I just wanted this done and over with, without having to chase Kino up every few weeks/months for another year or more. This is why I sent the additional funds Kino sent back to them.

While I'm glad to have finally put a cap on this, the sour taste this has left me with probably wont ever go away. It's a shame because I have been a fan of Kino's for years; I have bought things from their store and commissioned them previously with no issues at all. After this though, I don't think I can look at them in the same way, nor follow or support their work.

I have also contacted a third party who works with Kino/who Kino works with to alert them of their unprofessionalism.

I hope if there is anyone still waiting on a refunds get it soon.