Luna996

Unless i misread Im sure Efsher didn't want ANY credits removed from her art.

I also will mimic what i said before: if Raven didn't want Adiago credited, why did she go and accept the final pieces where the credits where plain as they right there? Why didnt she mention this to Efsher from the beginning?

It looks like she didn't mention it at all when she placed the order not to credit Adiago, so she can't complain to Efsher as if it was her fault Raven had to edit the work. Raven trying to think she can get her money back for all this while putting 90% blame on Efsher is just wrong.

Removing credits because she "had enough" and "assumed" it was okay since she got the PDF files is just wrong. You should never "assume" something is okay to do when it comes to editing an artist artwork. It is common curtisy to ask first. Even then Efsher clearly didnt want to offend Adiago, and being she is an artist, she knows it is best to credit another artist to keep things professional and be respectful. Even if someone doesn't like someone, it should be explanitory to still give credit where it is due unless the person just wants to look bad.

6 minutes ago, Xaila said:

Raven owns the designs because she bought them. But I believe she had a falling out with the owner (Adiago) so of course said species owner 'cuts' those characters out of the species; but instead of going their own way and making a new name, Raven continues to call them by that particular species. Why? Don't know.

She has a post on FA somewhere on another account where she has made a side "branch off" lore about Abyss Drakes that goes completely against the cannon lore. At that point I would think she'd have just renamed this spin off race given all the drastic changes to the lore. But even then i still wonder if that'd even be something right to do...

I'm honestly conflicted if renaming would just make things better or worse.

25 minutes ago, armaina said:

The thing that I don't understand is, why does Raven not just change the name of the species completely. If she really wants to wash her hands of Adiago, wouldn't it be best to Not keep the name of the species wrapped up in your character at all? Raven should have been up-front with this all from the beginning so that the artist could have made an informed choice.

That all being said, the edit itself isn't a bad thing, the client received PSDs, permitting her to change the text, so for all intents and purposes, the image itself was not edited, such as the art itself. I can understand's Raven's frustration but my sympathy goes out the window once she responded with a charge back instead of communicating with the artist at all.

Wouldn't that just make matters worse though with the drama between her and Adiago? Can she even do that?

And even if she changed the text and such, wouldn't it have been better to ask Efsher first? That way it didn't make it seem Efsher did it and was as Celstina said: "snubbing the creator"?

In what world does a person think "I had a DMCA filed against me = i should get my money back"?

Raven should have respected Efsher wanting to stay out of the drama if her health couldn't handle that kind of stress, not go the rout she went in response. That was no way to respond to Efsher by any means. An artist has the rights to refuse service. She should never have gone and edited the art and take out the credits without permission just because of bad blood with Adiago in what I can only guess was petty revenge for being professionally refused further business involving the character.

Plus as an artist herself, Raven should know better than to do such a thing to another artist, let alone one she commissioned and paid. If the credits were such a problem, she should have said something before accepting the final piece for some form of a compramise.

I guess Raven's bad blood with Adiago (she won't even credit Adiago under any Eclipse/Abyss Drake artwork as the species creator anymore as a result of it) has left her judgement between right and wrong severely clouded...

Calling a client "dear" and "darling" or other pet names i highly unprofessional. Also if an artist is unsure how to draw something they should have asked from the beginning. This is an artist i will avoid given the level of red flags and unprofessionalism.

The fact they refused to show you a WIP as proof of work was a red flag to me. If they were worried about peoole stealing art they could easily put a waternark over the wip like I sometimes do, or show a cropped version and such. But to just withold WIPs from clients is just...

Also looking at the notes you showed. The artist claimed they said they'd refund you, but actually didn't as if you missed what they said and were correcting you. So that is also a bit of a red flag them saying it that way...

Just lots of red flags x.x

This is a prime example of how you ahouldnt start any form of fine tuning a rough sketch or inking or even colpring until you have been paid. This person just wanted free art and dint care if us artists get paid.

On 5/25/2020 at 2:14 PM, RTKobold said:

There was another tweet by her which was fortunately saved by a reply by Lorel on the AB twitter here. 

Which all i can say is really gross coming from the artist mouth why would say something like that to your customer.

This is so highly unprofessional on SOOOOO many levels. I mean going and publicly slandering a former client they treated poorly by insinuating they're a (x-term here).

Also refusing refunds, running off with the money and then profiting off the artwork in a double profit way is just.... Red Flags galore... This isn't a game of monopoly where you have your friends land onf Boardwalk, get the pot and pass GO all at once...

The second someone asks for a business payment to be made via "friends and family" red flags go up with me.

This seems to be a reoccurijg thing with artists now lately. Their clients dont get what they want, ask for a fix, and then the artist decides suddenly to hammer on the client how they are in the wrong, this that and the other thing, then drop said client to the bottom of the queue or flat out remove them on the premise the client was x-person or for x-reason and then the artist thinks for said reason they can just run off with the client's money.

Plus it was very rude to just be like "oh your fursona is a trap and always drawn naked so" and not listen to your reasonings on why they're not a trap. Your fursona is an adorable bee, which bees are naturally cute and fuzzy and adorable, habing your sona be the same doesn't mean he's a trap.

Really it's upsetting to see this poor behavior and bad attitude becoming the new norm. All it ends up doing is getting an AB slapped on their name as a result. Plus you lost out on that blanket... ;- ; They should refund you the cost of the blanket AND the $30

5 minutes ago, AishaSlayde said:

Emails are not private, especially if they are linked with a paypal account. Doxxing, would be releasing independant bank account info, their real name as it appears on the paypal invoice and such.

You are right, it is not a crutch, it is a tool. No, I am not used to drawing larger preportions. had they been civil from the beginning and asked for changes without the ranting, name-calling, berating and everything else, I would have been much more inclined to work with them. I did message them here to ask if they would like changes made, pending some things. I also even asked if the staff from the server would forward the offer to them. But that part, of course, wasn't included here.

You uploaded their email (private or not) as an act of malicious intent by using defamation/slander. That is a form of doxing.

Depending on the state you live in you can actually file legal action for the artist leaking personal information afrer a business transaction as doing so is illegal in some states (assuming you live in the US) as a breech of client privacy.

Not only that but it is HIGHLY unprofessional and a form of DOXing.

She purposefully dragged it out past he 180 day window. Are this point you can't file a chargeback I'm guessing, and she's just purposefully dragging out giving you or anyone a refund.

Honestly if an artist hasn't delivered before the remaining 30 days of the 180 chargeback window, file a chargeback. Don't wait like this again.

I am seeing this becoming more and more of a habbit "Oh I asked for art as a kind gesture to you, so it should just be free. I don't have to pay you, I was being nice" as well as people going "oh I gave you exposure so you owe me free art". It's turning into a serious habit and this person will by no means be someone I do any form of art for. If her friends want to be scammed out of money and do things for free, that is on them, but tossing you into the group as someone who was doing things for free. I mean you asked them flat out "The $20 one?" and they agreed on that.

This habit of expecting free art from people is just.... why is it becoming a thing..?

I am noticing this becoming more and more of a habit with artists on FA. They advertise  they're selling art, take on too much, then high tail it to Pluto and deactivate everything. Why can't people just own up to the fact they done oopsed and do the responsible thing here?

Wrong beware I posted the comment on. But still this person shouldn't offer "gift art" and ignore actual paid for artwork that should come first and foremost.

They have returned to FA the beginning of this year. When confronted with no links back to my Twitter and FA and only showing old artwork they did, they immediately denied who they were only to block both my FA and twitter and where i confronted them. They then placed their twittwr on private after another user confronted them and blocked them. If they weren't who I accused them of being, why block my accounts that i didn't link myself back to? The only answer i can think of is that they knew the art was for me and that i was a client.

These are the accounts i have been able to find they are under now:

https://www.furaffinity.net/user/wtchynbtchy/
https://twitter.com/WtchynBtchy
https://www.deviantart.com/wtchynbtchy
https://toyhou.se/wtchynbtchy

https://ko-fi.com/wtchynbtchy6

Already they have started the same habits of taking work, not uploading finished pieces, blaming being busy for not uploading, only to ask for emergency funds and taking on even MORE work before completing what they already owe. I have counted 5 pieces they have taken in and failed to upload so far.

Excuse me but 12-17 MONTHS!? Who makes people wait that long for a commission!? Also the heck is a "kill fee"?? "A person doesn't want the art anymore so I'm just gonna take 40% of their money even if I haven't' started it." That's just theft right there.

Also that "a**hole clause is outright theft once again, and depending on the amount the person spent, is liable for legal action.

Everything I've read is all red flags, warning signs and neon lights that say "DO NOT PASS!!" I wouldn't go near this person with a ten foot pole!

EDIT: Also, who tells someone to "chill" after making them wait past promised deadlines, telling them they are actually dead last, and they won't get any refunds? Like you expect a person to remain calm after being told information like that???

Gather all the artists affected and take him to court for violating contract and not paying out. I knowna few good too many artists who took part in this and it's utter nonsense this is happening to them. Their art is being sold for someine else's profit. It's theft and just downright wrong.

3 hours ago, nachtlichtje said:

I have met and commissioned many lovely artists on DeviantArt whom I haven't had any issues with. I suppose every once in a while you end up with one 'bad seed' in the bunch. It just makes it hard to branch and find new artists to commission because up until the point you work with someone you don't know what they are going to be like. I did check their account and they were consistent with uploading so I'm not sure why this went the way it did and up until the refund issue I never actually bothered them regarding the commission. 

Have you tried looking outside of deviant art? I know there are still many pony artists out there (assuming this is pony because of rhe DA username of the artist) that would be glad to draw for you.

Sadly with sites like Deviant Art they dont really have an age restriction (I dont think j left when they started allowig porn (random poorly shot d*** picks of guys hard-one and such) images as "artistic nude" and the fact there are too many tracers. I bailed when someone traced my artwork. If it has changed since then (it's been like 12+ years now) I might return.

Anyways! What i am saying is im sure there are other sites out there with great artists!

That is just not cool. Even I made sure my people who had requesred refunds got their money when I had it, and told them of when it would be available as well (such as what month). To just run because peiole bit off more than they can chew seems like a new thing some artists are soing nowadays. It's sad. :c

i hope you can meet someone willing to do the piece who don't run and bail on you like this.

On 2/28/2019 at 10:46 AM, Commendthemoon said:

Additionally, they have now created a twitter account. 

 

https://twitter.com/BatVentress

I instantly reported that account. Thus guy is really a -not going to list names but has a few in my mind- for doing this and outright going Jackal and Mister Hyde when their attempts to steal this lovely girl went no where. You have every right to do a DCMA if they steal her.

Also those death threats and overall threara in general are just SUPER uncalled for. Could you also report him and press legal charges since he traced down your email somehow and was harrassing you?

Is there no wayyou can just go to the bank with evidence of avoidance and force a refund that way? I mean her admitting she wont work unless bothered shows every red flag under the sun, and her bribery? You dont ask a client to buy something for them in exchange for x-factor when you aren't doing your work.

The only time i asked a client to get me something was when we were discussing prices AND the fact they were my close friend and I offered to take the price of said thing off the final cost of what they asked for. (Note this said item was a very cheap thing and again i emphasize that we are close friends who periodically gift each other things).

In no way would i ask any random client to buy me something in exchange for x-factor as a means to empty their wallet morr and fill mine. It's downright shady what they are doing, and I plan on staying clear of this artist. The art is nice, the poor business practice is not.

19 minutes ago, 1337Scaly said:

Twilight, I am personally appalled; and I thought a year+ was too much, but 3 years?! You have the patience of a saint, more than me. 

Kei, you are 100% right. That's also why it's very hard to separate evidence from issues because they intertwine so much. I don't like the guilt-tripping and that's why it took so long for me to write this in the first place. I wanted to be nice and wait, but this was just too much.

Oh, Chesta noted me yesterday, getting upset about this Beware, saying she is working on my commissions and wants this down when she's finished.

Oh so now she is getting mad at YOU for something SHE did? The audacity to even dare get in a huff for her poor lack of proper business management being made publuc is HIGHLY unprofessional. If she did what she was supposed to do, she wouldn't be having peoole call her out on it ajd make public bewares not to commission her unless they want to be scammed.

Plus this isnt her only beware about her. I've seen at least 2 others.

Can you provide a copy of her message for us in the beware as well please??