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VosurAekira

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Posts posted by VosurAekira

  1. From what I see based off of this (if you paid on the same day), the latest you would have before you should initiate the dispute/claim would be 22nd of  February 2023. The longest I'd suggest in waiting would be 27th of January 2023 (5 month mark), which should give more than ample time for a response. 

    But If they mentioned a deadline, it would not be a bad idea to find out if something may be happening on their end to cause the delay.

  2. Do you have a way to get your money back (if it already pulled)? If so, I would send one more message at approximately the 4 month mark to let them know that you would be requesting a refund (or chargeback if that option is available through the means you paid through) at the 5 month mark due to the lack of contact provided by the business. 

    Until the 4 month mark, I would hold off for a bit to see if they respond. After that point, I would initiate the contact one last time to let them know of the situation and your intentions due to the lack of communication on their part.

  3. If needed, would it be an idea to have an updated reference (if ref-sheet of a character) so that you can say that the artwork was made by someone you trust? I'm having to go through something like that with artists that I've had some sour experiences with. The artists were good, and the artwork provides the details, but I feel the art-style would make me think of the bad moments too much, but that is just me and my two-cents-worth.

  4. Filing a dispute/escalating to a claim in paypal (if you used that for payment) is usually your last line of communication, but if you could not get through to the artist before this point, you might need to resort to doing this. If you do go through this, make sure you do not close the dispute (or let it auto-close without escalation) if you don't get what you paid for.

    Once a dispute is closed, you cannot reopen it and a claim cannot be filed. Also disputes will auto-close within a certain number of days (one week to ten days if my memory serves me right? could be mistaken here). 

    Make sure you have exhausted all means you know of, but if time is running short on that protection window, then you may need to resort in the dispute/claim process.

  5. BBCode doesn't seem to like me here, so I'll drop links to the images, let me know if they work here.

    This is how an email-notice for an invoice looks to the recipient.
    https://i.imgur.com/SUYCHPU.png

    Here's what they would see on their paypal dashboard page
    https://i.imgur.com/zHO8BQg.png

    If they go to their activity-page, they will see this:
    https://i.imgur.com/4tA2uKg.png

    After they find their invoice, this is what they should see:
    https://i.imgur.com/UxdjeLK.png

    And lastly, this will be be in the pop-up page for paying for the invoice: (note, it may be in a small-window that does not fit everything in it like this)
    https://i.imgur.com/A5YVFAf.png

  6. Ah, okay. Sorry for the confusion on that. And to be honest, if they do a "Send payment" there is a chance they may accidentally use "Friends and Family", which is unwise on multiple parts (could harm the artist if the artist receives too many payments like that, prevents disputes/claims if a situation arises within the normal 180 day window, ect.).

    If you need to, simply mentioning about the preventing of disputes and claims might deter some people from trying to use the "Send Payment" and might encourage them to request an invoice.

  7. I'll drop this here for the how-to for sending an invoice. https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/how-do-i-create-and-send-an-invoice-faq3144

    Now, when I get an invoice to pay, I'll see if I can make a step-by-step on how the commissioner sends the payment through the invoice. I have to wait until Thursday first though.

    Edit: Here is the text-based instructions on how to do it from paypal's site: https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/how-do-i-pay-a-money-request-or-invoice-faq2206

  8. I've seen only the commissioner-side of invoices (never made one myself), but I know that by default Paypal sends a copy to the email-listed for the recipient's Paypal account and also puts up a notice of a "To be paid" or "Requires attention" (or something else of that effect) on the main-page when the person accesses their account. Invoices that are awaiting-payment usually get put to the forefront while other already-performed activity gets separated. Next time I get an invoice, I may have to screenshot it to show how it looks (with censoring PII of course).

  9. Something else that might be an idea is to make sure you have a pose in mind and what details you want refined down.

    For example, having a simple akimbo pose is a good detail, also having a front view and a back view are good as well (some go a step-further and have a side-view too. Details of the eyes and any body markings (tattoos, scars, beauty-marks, ect.) are good mentions too. 

  10. Check to see if you have an ad-blocker/tracker-blocker (Ublock Origin, Ghostery for example) that might be hindering it.

    If you can't find out what's preventing it and try again without it active, see if they can accept an email with the uploaded documents as attachments?

  11. When you do so for the verification, see if they can send you an email-copy of all the requirements they need to make sure.

    As for the "proof of delivery", I don't think it should be an issue unless the buyer files a claim and mentions that the "item was not delivered". You could always change it to "delivered" when the commission is finalized and approved.

  12. I would recommend posting the portion of the transcript where they mentioned you could keep the money/cancelled the commission in the option where you have room for putting evidence. 

    Also, of note, there is an option to block the person not only on the media (FA/DA/twitter, ect.) but also on paypal. If you go to the main page, look for where it says "Send Again". There's a bubble with three dots that gives you some options, click on it and choose "Manage Contacts". If you have their email address, you can filter your contacts with the search-bar. Once you find them, click on their name/profile and see what shows. You should find two links that say "Remove Contact" or "Block Contact". If you're intending on preventing them from sending you anything (and thus preventing them from starting this again), choose "Block Contact".

  13. My personal experience would be to ask them how much time would they normally take to do a sketch phase/line-art phase/flat-color phase/shaded-colored phase with one character then see how much they would charge per-hour and base it off of that (with maybe 1-5 hours extra depending on which phase you choose). If they have the capability to stream, see if you can find a stopwatch or a stopwatch program/site to help with getting a better idea of the range while you're watching the artist work.

  14. @armaina
    Actually, it would fall under the premise of a legally-binding verbal contract (follow along here  if you wish: 
    https://thelawdictionary.org/article/is-a-verbal-agreement-legally-binding/  )  due to the nature being a "documented verbal contract" (meaning it has a transcript and can be used as evidence in court if absolutely necessary).

    "Although oral contracts are difficult to enforce in court, the parties should make a concerted effort to discuss enforceability, which can be achieved by incorporating the following elements:

    – Mutual consent and understanding, which means that both parties are cognizant about what they are agreeing to. If a woman hires a contractor to paint the interior of her house, both parties must understand exactly how many rooms and living spaces are to be painted.

    – Offer and acceptance, which means that one party is proposing something that the other party may accept under certain conditions.

    – Mutual consideration, which means that there must be an exchange of valuable goods, rights or services.

    – Performance, which means that the contractual parties have certain duties to perform in addition to the mutual consideration.

    – Good faith, which means that the parties should not attempt to enter into a verbal agreement to cheat each other or to break the law. It is important to remember that certain jurisdictions may require certain contracts to be written; for example, real estate purchases."

    ------------------------------------------------------
    This might also fall under the premise of an informal contract (follow along here if you wish: https://www.upcounsel.com/informal-contract  )

    "An informal contract is a type of agreement that will not require any sort of legal intervention to be considered enforceable. They are different from formal contracts because they do not need to be sealed, witnessed, or written.

    An informal contract is often called a social contract. This type of contract needs to be avoided if there is no trust with the other party you are contracting with. A verbal contract is considered informal and only works when the other party can be trusted to perform their contractual duties without a written assurance.

    A sales contract is an informal contract that is most common. They are specific to every situation and will not always include specific legalities. For instance, a sales contract will not be the same when buying a used car versus a brand-new car.

    It could also be different if two people were buying the same car but in a different color. Everyone’s contract will be completely different based on individual circumstances.

    For it to be legally binding, an informal contract has to include mutual assent, offer and acceptance, and consideration. It is not based in formalities, but in the observation of people making promises and intent.

    There are five main elements when forming an informal contract:

    1.     Mutual assent

    2.     Consideration or validation

    3.     Two or more parties entering a contract

    4.     Parties have to have legal rights to contract

    5.     No statute or rules declaring a contract void. "

    "No statute/rules declaring a contract void..." That portion right there actually strikes me as prevalent because most Adopts actually follow that to a "T". You can't really just say "it's void because I say so", you have to include as to why it would be so rather than an out-of-the-blue revoking if you see it as a license. 
    ---------------------------------------------

    But I will agree with you on one thing: "That being said, most artists need to define the terms they use and make clear language regarding what's being sold."

    You can't sell (or distribute?) license contracts for characters without being more precise on it since you need the terms of agreement (price for duration, length of duration, what is allowed/not-allowed, what happens if actions are done outside of allowed, ect. ) However, it is much easier to go through an assignment since you can state "all rights go to you, I hold the right as the artist only" rather than listing off each individual right to be transferred, so most artists go that route.

  15. While I am not a lawyer, the problem I do see is that he does not give any cited laws to review over or any details as to 'why' they are the way he mentioned.  This could be a very long post, so I may end up needing to split it.

    Starting off, we shall try to better identify what an "Adoptable" is. Probably the most common definition that is relevant comes from (oddly enough) urban dictionary: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Adoptable

    "A term usually seen on furry art sites such as DeviantART, Inkbunny, etc. An adoptable is a custom-made cartoon/furry character, specifically made to be sold to someone..." (error in spelling corrected, you'll see it on the page.)

    Okay, maybe not the most 'clean' of definitions, but it's straight-forward. "specifically made to be SOLD to someone".

    Let's look at the Merriam-Webster version ( https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adoptable )

    Adjective version of Adopt, definition of "Adopt", 1:
    "To take by choice into a relationship, especially: to take voluntarily (a child of other parents) as one as one's own child."
    Definition of "Adopt", 2: "To take up and practice or use."
    Definition of "Adopt", 3: "To accept formally and put into effect."

    This set does make a bit of sense on the origin of the word to a degree, all these people are taking in these characters into their own stories or worlds when they buy the adoptables. In both versions, the situation is permanent. There's no duration.

    In it's purest form, I would find an "adoptable" as an intellectual property. For that definition, I will pull this from the World Intellectual Property Organization: https://www.wipo.int/about-ip/en/ if you wish to read beyond the following statement:

    "Intellectual property (IP) refers to creations of the mind, such as inventions; literary and artistic works; designs; and symbols, names and images used in commerce."

    Alright, let's find out what we can do with an adoptable if it falls under that category ( https://mmaiplaw.com/sell-startups-intellectual-property/ to follow along)

    "The intellectual property of your startup can be bought and sold, licensed, exchanged, or donated just like other types of property."

    It does give credit to both licensing and selling (along with giving or trading) as options. So nothing's off the table yet. Keeping with that last page, there's more to see.

    "Legally speaking, an assignment of a patent is a transfer of the rights to use the IP so that the recipient has title to it. Again, think of it as selling the patent to another individual or company. You sell it, and they own it. When your startup assigns the rights to a trademark and your goodwill, the assignee becomes the owner of that trademark… they have the same rights as the startup that owned it in the first place. "

    There's those keywords again: "you sell" and "they own". Now comes the tricky part on this same page:

    "A license is a contract to use someone else’s intellectual property rights, usually for a fee. In contrast to an assignment, the startup that owns the IP maintains the ownership of those rights. This allows your startup to contract for an ongoing regular payment for the use of those IP rights, like being the landlord and receiving monthly rent from a tenant.

    A license agreement requires the assistance of an experienced IP attorney because there are numerous details that must be addressed—or your startup may give away more than it intended. Your attorney will negotiate the rights to your intellectual property for a defined time, context, industry, or territory. The license can also be exclusive or non-exclusive."

    Hm.. so a license is closer to a "rent or lease"? But you only pay for adoptables once. Also, more than one person can have a license agreement? That would also put possible conflicts on who can do what with the said character (give a story/personality to the character, ect.)


    ---------------------------------

    Part two.

    Alright, we defined the aspects of what an adoptable is (both common to artwork and origin), what an intellectual property is, and what can be done with an intellectual property.

    Now we move onto the process of buying and selling adoptable characters (or buying and selling adoptable character licenses). First step is the offer, second step would be negotiation (if needed), and lastly would be acceptance. In most adopt-transactions, the conversation would be similar to this that I've seen:

    Seller: "Hello! I'm selling (insert adopt) for (insert price)!"
    Buyer: "I'll take the character."
    Seller: "Alright, send the money to (insert money transfer means, usually Paypal address)."
    Buyer: "Money's sent!"
    Seller: "And received!"

    The intent is stated in the example above is to fully transfer the rights and design of the character from Seller to Buyer in exchange for the price, which is a one-time transaction. This is called an "assignment" rather than a "license".

    However, the details of a licensing agreement is far more detailed (follow along here: https://www.inc.com/encyclopedia/licensing-agreements.html )

    "A licensing agreement is a legal contract between two parties, known as the licensor and the licensee. In a typical licensing agreement, the licensor grants the licensee the right to produce and sell goods, apply a brand name or trademark, or use patented technology owned by the licensor. In exchange, the licensee usually submits to a series of conditions regarding the use of the licensor's property and agrees to make payments known as royalties..."

    The terms of agreement would usually be set before purchase and both parties would have to agree on it. But let's read further:

    "One of the most important elements of a licensing agreement covers the financial arrangement. Payments from the licensee to the licensor usually take the form of guaranteed minimum payments..."

    Again, more than one payment that I see for a license. Let's continue on this page:

    "Another important element of a licensing agreement establishes the time frame of the deal.... The licensing agreement will also include provisions about the length of the contract, renewal options, and termination conditions."

    A license can expire, but it's stated in the license. Most adopts that are bought do not state anything about how long a person has them. Also termination conditions? So there would be a price to pay if you're no longer wanting to continue to have the adopt if it were a license? But let us continue on:

    "Another common element of licensing agreements covers which party maintains control of copyrights, patents, or trademarks. Many contracts also include a provision about territorial rights, or who manages distribution in various parts of the country or the world. In addition to the various clauses inserted into agreements to protect the licensor, some licensees may add their own requirements. They may insist on a guarantee that the licensor owns the rights to the property, for example, or they may insert a clause prohibiting the licensor from competing directly with the licensed property in certain markets."

    Now we're at the part we really need to be in. In such a licensing agreement, it actually does need to be stated who has what rights over the character. All the time, the artist retains the right to the artwork with possible credit given to the buyer to being the one who 'adopted' the character in some cases (usually as a reminder of who owns what in adopt 'batches').

    The conversation I see pertaining to this type of situation would be like this:

    Seller: "Hi, I'm wanting to sell the right-to-use for this character, are you interested?"
    Buyer: "I am, what are your terms?"
    Seller: "This is what you can and cannot do with this character, and also this is how long you will have this character."
    Buyer: "Alright. And the fee?"
    Seller: "(Insert price) to be sent to (money transfer setup)."
    Buyer: "I agree to that. First payment has been sent."

    So to play Devil's Advocate in this: We do not know the conversation that went between the Original Poster and the Buyer for this transaction, so whether it was an assignment (standard adoptable procedure as told by many artists and buyers to me) or a licensing (procedure found out through this situation), we do not know for sure.

  16. Alright. Let's sort out what detail is given in the article:

    1. "Adoptables are characters that are created by artists, and then placed out there for sale."
    Okay. That just reiterates the mention that the character is sold. Not just the license-to-use is sold when purchasing an adopt. Usually it comes with a common-courtesy that the original artist is given proper credit due for the artwork, but that's a given to me.

    2. "So the default, when there is no agreement and speaking in generalities, is that the artist is the holder of the copyright over the character from the moment of creation forward.  The artists, therefore, has the right to demand others not use that specific character (with certain limited exceptions that we ain’t getting into here today) and, likewise, can actually demand that people stop using the character."
    Given. If the character hasn't been sold, it only belongs to the artist.

    3. "Also, I should point out…without terms defining the scope of the artist’s ability to revoke, a revocable-at-will license is exactly what it sounds like.  The artist can revoke the right to use the character whenever they fucking want unless they agree to certain limitations in the negotiation and purchase."
    BIG problem here if this is the case: If the artist does choose to revoke the character license to the commissioner, then the said artist would have to compensate based off of the amount paid to use the character, plus what extra art was made. But to reiterate this with the line from 1. : "Adoptables are characters that are created by artist, then placed out there for sale." And I'm going to stress the words "characters for sale", not "license for sale". There is a difference between those two.

    So, if you make characters and intend to sell said characters, that's what an adopt is. If you intend to make characters and sell licenses to use the characters, it should be worded as "Licenses of Adopts for Sale" rather than "Adopts for Sale".

  17. I might have to disagree with a good portion of that, Celestina. When an adoptable is sold, it becomes a "This character now belongs to (insert name)" situation. When a commissioner has already had art made of the said character, attempting to revoke said rights of the character to that buyer would become a messy ordeal. 

    I'll use myself as an example: If I were to buy an adoptable, then I have a full-fledged reference sheet made to the character along with multiple pieces of artwork, then the original artist comes along and no longer wishes for me to use the character, they gave up on the rights to the character when the money exchanged hands. They can, however, attempt to make a deal to purchase back the character and the art to compensate for the rights, but then the artists of the other artworks will need to be notified as well for proper-credit or removal-requests. To further on this, if I were to deny the deal, then that is where this would end. However, the artist who made the original adopt art can request the original art to be removed if I were to have uploaded that to my own gallery(-ies) through one-on-one contact or through the administration means.

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