Vashaa

What a shady thing to do.

I don't really know where to start. So, bear with me please.
It's appalling for me still that artists just go ahead and spend money immediately and then have nothing to refund. Especially when they themselves cancel commissions. I get emergencies, but that is not the commissioner's problem. At all. It is also not the commissioner's problem if the artist offers 20 pieces of art for a too low price.

But what really ticks me off is this artist blatently lying to paypal's face. With a fake tracking number. I would be ashamed of myself. Not finishing stuff and stealing money basically. I really have no sympathy for this artist. At all. Sorry.
And I am sorry that you had to deal with this, op.

Call paypal and present your evidence. Show them what the 'artist' showed you as examples and what you discussed. This must be the first case I saw where paypal sided with such a case. Very strange. Maybe they showed them something else?
If they still won't help you, then go directly to your credit card and call fraud. They will help you as far as I know.

And I would actually want to see that link. It's important for people to know who this is. at least provide a screen with blacked out info or sth.

I am appalled by the behaviour. No excuse for me to ever call out someone like that and actually faking situations. Calling you rude while smiling at you while you chatted. Very odd. I didn't find you rude or anything.

I might agree with not just editing other people's work (without consent, but you asked...), but for something like a drop shadow? I would allow that if it would be run with me in the end to look if it's still good. Same with the full res art. I don't know why they wouldn't give that out. I have to say that I also never saw sticker without either a white outline or a dropshadow, but I wouldn't call it rushed. Just... not completely finished for me. But I have to say, good that you got a refund, just keep an eye on that.

On 11/2/2019 at 10:53 AM, InklopBunny said:

Quick note to say that my pronouns are her/she.

sorry. It's something I take from my native language, since the noun in there is masculine. Didn't mean to misgender

3 hours ago, Rendrassa said:

The qualities look the same, but the style of your icon is vastly different from the other two. Really can't imagine not giving a sketch WIP, especially for traditional.

This is what I also noticed. If I'd see especially that on the right and got what op got, then I would also ask why. I also noticed that the artist apparently didn't have all the colours for this character.
I cannot understand how you wouldn't send a wip, especially for a traditional piece that you can't edit that easily (or at all.) And I can't stress this enough: If you have trouble with a character, or questions or are unsure about details, since there obviously was confusion, the character looks different, ask.

Nothing though excuses the lack on contact and them ignoring you. I think this could have been handled with a few minor edits maybe, like adding horns, changing eye colour a bit, etc. Unfortunate.

 

8 hours ago, Rendrassa said:

Also, I'm not sure what this monthly fee is that the artist complains about?

Also have no idea about that. I am a constant customer of them for over 10 years now, with a business account and never had a monthly fee?

Paypal also states this for my google search:

" No monthly fees, setup fees, or contracts. Just pay a standard transaction fee of 2.9% + $0.30 per US transaction. "

which is what I am used to.

(Ignoring the friends and family part here, since it was already brought up)
While I agree that you should have brought it up at the sketch stage, and understand that the artist might not want to change things on the finished piece, I agree with armaina here. It's such a small edit, I don't know why they reacted that way, especially since mistakes can happen between sketch and finished picture, especially with no wips. I didn't find you pushy or lecturing at all by the way, and I am sorry that you got that reaction, op.

7 hours ago, InklopBunny said:

I’m pretty sure they were already produced, they were announced when Vani had left-over stock to sell, which I had bought one of (kougra). 

They always seem to excuse their behaviour with an empty wallet, yet at the same time they have created new merch, adoptables, moved/new pet/etc. They’ve been in the business long enough to know how to prepare for production costs, let alone manage their own spending habits.

Money they earn from sales should be allocated for what the goods are, eg money for charms is for shipping. It is unprofessional to run out and spend after a sale, and then say ‘whoops, i can’t refund you, the money is gone’. I *really* hope this scenario is resolved for everyone involved.

This. I always make sure to keep the money of commissions in my paypal/never spend it before the commissioner got his product. But unfortunately this is nothing new from them. But yes, here's hoping that op at least gets his money back somehow.

Were these charms already produced? Or do they make them after the order? Because if it is the first, then there is no reason to not ship them right away.

No matter what though. Spending money before rendering a service is theft. It is not your money before the product isn't delivered. If it hadn't been spent, then there wouldn't have been a problem. Your financial hardship is not the commissioner's problem. Ever.

So... wait.
First they don't put you on the queue, a queue you had never seen before. Then they simply ignore your commission in favour for new ones because they need money. They they belittle and insult you when you want a refund after months of waiting. And then they dash out a ..sketch of something that isn't your character.

Also. Did they say they want to use the sketch as a ych? This would no be okay if they didn't refund you completely. You paid for the sketch, it is yours.

In general I cannot understand how artists spend the money for a transaction before it is completed and then blame the commissioner if they want their money back. You, as an artist, are entirely at fault for managing your money. If you cannot live from your art, then you have to have a stable job outside of it to support your lifestyle. If it does, be professional and 'work'. Art ist not a hobby anymore once you take money. And that money is only yours after you completed the transaction. Anything else is theft. Really, beware well warrented. I am sorry this happened to you op.

This is disgusting behaviour. I am appalled. I am so sorry this happens to you and that FA does something against this individual. It does look a lot like... 'revenge'. Thank you for making the beware.

1 hour ago, Scourge said:

I love the last part of the PayPal response about the tos. If they are talking about a no refund policy, which it sounds like they are, then as far as PayPal is concerned it means nothing. 

This. Also means nothing before the law anyway(at least here), especially when the artist is in the wrong and didn't deliver the service.

It is also not the commissioners task to run after their commission or keep in touch with the artist's life. If you cannot do commissions in a timely manner or inform people about that, if you don't have time or too much stress, then don't take on more until you have worked on the old ones. A backlog is not the commissioner's fault.

9 hours ago, Witchess said:

I believe you would still be able to go to paypal for the transaction as long as you are within the time period and force a chargeback. that behavior of theirs is unacceptable. If they were not comfortable drawing a kink they should not have accepted the money.

This. I always make sure to let people know what I won't draw. If they say 'literally everything' well, then they should go through with it or simply refund in total, and don't comment on any of it.

I would give them a deadline, and if they don't respond or give you the art until then, you should open a paypal dispute.
You have 180 days to do that from when you sent the money, and don't close that until you get the art.

12 hours ago, carbide said:

So,

first off, you filed this artist beware dating it 12/12/2018 however your first payment was in december of 2018? you state it was late 2018 that the problems occured, however its only recently that problems have developed

second, you have started a gofund me prior to resolving it with the seller. 

third you understand do to the lion king ref you have to modify the suit due to copyright.

fourth short pile fur is gunna show everything, and depending on body size and type its fitted as close to you as possible.

fifth you are crying foul and rallying people to a cause because you are not happy trying to get a refund and gofund me is a double standard. according to your monthly payments it seems like you had to take time to pay for it then have it rushed for a international con???

sixth before acting like an entitled and expect VIP treatment it seems theyve done theyre best to accommodate you and work with you.

7th the cost of materials has risen so high do to the US's current trade tarrifs that materials ezpecially synth furs are 15-25% higher so its obvious sellers will adjust and protect themselves both in TOS and cost.

ALSO i feel like you are not divulging all the information regarding this issue?

 

 

(Sorry for the edit)
They sent wips, yes, which the commissioner was unhappy with, with them trying to tell him that he should trust them on this and try to invalid his opinions on those changes.
Short fur does not excuse the seams in the middle or the unclean one on the tail, nor the crooked nose and uneven ears and brows.

If the maker wouldn't be able to get the suit ready, in their usual quality for a specific deadline that was stated in the very beginning, then they should decline the commission.

And of course artists/makers have to adjust their prices, but! you cannot say you will not refund in any case. Never, it is illegal to do that.

I feel like you are coming over very aggressively and I wonder why. The quality is the issue here, which is not discussable.

4 hours ago, Celestina said:

Camaro is currently sending us more emails to update this post, but I did want to drop in and just leave my opinion.

Like I know this fur is naturally really wrinkly and hard to hide seams in, but they should have been up front this would be an issue.  And that doesn't even account for the fact that the profile still looks rodent like.  Plus there's this strange overlap of the light fur on the upper eyebrows that hide the actual eyebrows.  I'm not sure what's going on there, but once you see it it's hard to unsee it.

Oh god, I just saw that. How could that happen even? I wouldn't know how you'd get wrinkles anywhere on the head.

23 hours ago, Bourbon said:

First, the no refund policy absolutely doesn't hold up and them trying to enforce that is ridiculous.

Secondly, that is clearly a rodent head. I can't believe they were actually doubling down that the rodent head would magically look like a cat head once furred. I don't see that working at all, the muzzle and cheeks are the wrong shape and the ears are very round. There's a reason foam bases are used and it's because they affect what the final shape looks like. Just a really weird beware 

As for the tail, curved tails like that are often made so they don't drag on the ground, most fursuits have curved tails like that regardless of the character unless they're floor draggers. It keeps them from getting dirty. 

This. The head would never look like a cat's. Wrong anatomy and proportions, the nose isn't even close? I don't know why they would use that and then say it would work out?

As for the tail, you hit the nail on the head, but since they have not said it like that? Sounds more like they made mistakes and don't want to admit that.

Either way, no refunds. No go and illegal.

This is really horrible. I dread situations and buyers/commissioners like this. I hope paypal rules in your favour(or that their bank does).