James

A comment was not posted because it contained speculation. Let's not drag any artists into this unless they want to be.

By the stars what a nightmare client.  I'm so sorry you had to put up with this over $15.

I see you've already raised your prices, so I'm glad on that front.  Honestly, I always say when clients like this come and visit me, I know it's time to raise my prices and keep going until they disappear.

PM sent to OP

7 minutes ago, Risuchan004 said:

Hello again! Wanted to post an update regarding the whole situation with Paypal.

Despite me showing all the proof, explaining the whole situation, sharing screenshots, etc. T_Cyberwolf still won the case. Paypal didn't provide any reasons or further explanation on why it ended up like that, but.. it's final. Paypal did tell me that, since I can't provide any PHYSICAL proof that T_Cyberwolf wasn't hacked, and that the hacker was the one writing the messages to me, there's nothing I can do. At this point idk if I should ask customers to always sign a contract before purchasing.. because what else am I supossed to do to "physically" proof no one is hacked? Anyway, Paypal letting scammer getting away with anything and everything isn't new.

My Paypal account was unharmed at the very least because "I'm a valuable customer" - but what they tried to say is that, since T_Cyberwolf asked the money back because of "unauthorized transaction" and I already refunded the money, I'm obviously not at fault for anything apparently, so that's why I haven't faced any repercussions thankfully.

So in short, T_Cyberwolf has succesfully scammed me, got both the money and the files.

All I can do, is to advice people to spread awareness and block this person, because I wasn't the only one that got scammed, and he's probably going to try it out again eventually - he's pretty active on twitter as well, so be on the look out for that.

Unfortunately, "unauthorized payments" are almost always ended in the client's favor.  Especially if they are initiated by the bank.  I'm not sure if you used their automated system or called them, but in some rare instances Paypal will make the seller whole out of their own funds.  However, we've only seen this happen once or twice.

1 minute ago, ruchu said:

I'm still relatively new to the site and I don't want to add edits to my post until this issue has been fully resolved but if anyone is curious about updates; there has been none. I am still awaiting my refund.

Post editing is turned off for everyone but moderators.  If you have any updates, feel free to leave them in the comments.  🙂

3 minutes ago, Mossling said:

Another important thing to note is that the client claims to have emailed me on January 11th, 2022. I checked both my emails and found this;

Absolutely nothing. Hence, either they sent their email to the wrong person or fabricated it. I do not have any emails dated on the 11th of January, 2022 from this client and have never received one since from 09/04/2020 to 01/19/2022. What I do have are a total of four twitter notifications and a Buzzly activation email. I checked my gmail as a courtesy, but only the one on outlook is provided or associated with the public and used as my work email.

I've approved this, but let's avoid hurling accusations of fabrication that can't be proven or disproven at the moment as it isn't helpful.  @pisqcurio can you provide a screencap of the email with the heading visible?

1 hour ago, Mossling said:

 

Images were removed by the staff, unfortunately, and asked to be that way when I submitted it. While they have been readded, some are missing or out of order.

We asked for the doc link to be removed, but I don't recall any of your individual images being asked to be removed.  If there's anything you'd like me to toss in beyond the other two, just let me know where they go and I'll put them in!  (In PM please 🙂 )

Because folks were really confused about the [image 1] stuff, I went ahead and just dropped the images where they should go.

Hyperion has requested a final statement be added to this.  I've screenshoted it and have copy pasted the text in.

Quote

I grant permission for this statement to be posted only on this website and only in its entirety:

-----

Concluding statement:

1.  The seller's correspondence indicated a refusal to accept a return to the only address I had on file.  I requested return instructions in October 2020 and did not get a any until May 2021 when a third party reached out to me.

2.  As evidenced by her own screenshots, the seller was possessed of my e-mail address, the PayPal e-mail address, and the postal address to which the merchandise was sent.  I never received an e-mail from the seller, nor did Alexander receive one at his PayPal e-mail address, nor a letter to the physical address containing return instructions.  If they were sent to either, they would have been obeyed.  Instead, this matter was artificially prolonged so that the seller may garner publicity at the expense of myself.  Therefore, the seller is entirely to blame for any delay in the return.

3.  There is no police report file to my knowledge.  The item was shipped to North Carolina where theft over $950 is grand larceny, a felony.  If a police report was filed, it would have been cited here.  The lack of one indicates that the seller did not desire a return of her faulty merchandise, but rather sought to force through the sale through a campaign of intimidation as discussed in paragraph 5.

4.  Only a very foolish thief would keep stolen merchandise at the same address to which it was originally shipped.  The proof is in the pudding.  I denounce any claim of "moral theft."

5.  I stand by every action I have taken as it relates to this matter.  I was sold merchandise that was not as described, made an effort to affect a return without acrimony, and was instead met by a harassment campaign on Twitter with an audience of over 10'000 people, the groundwork of which was laid the very evening I e-mailed my request. This is an ordeal I would not wish upon anyone except the seller.  Caveat emptor!

Given the fact that both the bewaree and this random account with IP addresses in extremely close proximity to each other joined and commented at the same time on a post that's three months old, we are approving this comment with a big *:

Styx, once again, you are welcome to share your side of what happened here calmly and professionally.  Your initial comment was hidden because it was neither calm nor professional and laced with legal language that you do not appear to understand.  (Posts are neither slander nor libel if they are true.  There is no such thing as "public" use.  The word you're looking for is "commercial".) 

If this is an attempt at a gotcha; it isn't.

A comment was not posted because it violates Rule 1 of the Rules of Participation and Commenting.

Quote

1.  Comments are to remain professional, constructive, and on topic.  We are not a drama site.

• No name calling.
• No unnecessary hostility.
• Non-business related issues are off-topic.  (We don't want to hear about anyone's personal drama.)
• Transphobic, Homophobic, and Racist language will result in an immediate ban.
• Well wishes such as "I hope this gets resolved, OP!" are ok, but please see the "dogpiling" section on using the like feature.

While we welcome bewarees to come and share their side, you are still required to follow our guidelines for participation.  

Since when is someone having poor file management the client's problem?  Yes, they should overpaint it.  And fix the lineart while they're at it, because it's not near the same quality as the examples.  Your markings weren't even done neatly on the tail when the complex markings on the leopard look lovely.

I'm just baffled by this.  "Pick what parts are important"  The ref sheet has it right there.  I'm literally half blind and visually impaired and see what's wrong.

Every once in a while we get a submission that just leaves me completely thrown for a loop, and this is one of them.

Updated this to be resolved.  The case closed in my favor.  The artist never responded.

A comment was not approved as it does not meet our standards:

Please note that while we are a beware site, we do not believe in penalizing artists for who they choose or choose not to do business with as per Item 1 of the Submission Guidelines.

https://twitter.com/SarahcatFursuit/status/1467655938828083203

7 minutes ago, Rainissance said:

Alright so an update on the situation:

I called Paypal today and asked them about the claim I submitted and asked the lady on the line if the artist was violating Paypal's TOS (i.e charging paypal fees). She said it wasn't as they were being charged with the fees anyways, and while she agreed it was morally wrong and scummy of them to do, she couldn't do anything as the artist by Paypal terms wasn't doing anything violating on Paypal's platform.

She told me just wait out the dispute for a response and couldn't do anything yet. So yeah unfortunately I couldn't get my claim resolved over the phone unfortunately 😕

It sounds like you got a bad rep, which unfortunately happens. Especially if you get assigned an international rep, which aren't always as versed in the ToS.  Which line did you call, but more importantly which country are you using?

The US agreement for instance spells out clearly no fees may be charged. 

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#accepting-payments

So a few things:

-  She links directly to her ToS to Paypal, where she's advertising she's charging Paypal fees.  I hope she knows if Paypal sees that they may close her Paypal account as that's very much against their ToS and way higher than the actual fees Paypal charges to the seller.  Also, all it takes is one disgruntled client to report that Paypal fees are being charged to lose one's account.

-  No refunds ever clauses are unethical and we at Artists Beware do not honor them.  If your wait time is so long that you have to force people to wait until nearly the end of Paypal's protection time, then you both need to up your prices and stop taking on so many commissions.  Commission money is not yours until you've delivered the finished product to the client.

This is why we tell people to not touch "no refunds ever" artists with a 10 ft pole, because it usually comes hand in hand with other bad business practices.

Anyhow, as we advised privately, the best course of action is to call Paypal. They usually will resolve these types of issues immediately over the phone in your favor.  Doubly so now if you bring up this seller is violating their ToS and making clients wait beyond the end of protection to get their item. 

On 11/2/2021 at 11:26 AM, Sifyro said:

Holy shit? paypal didn't read the sller response and took in favor an unrelated minecraft excuse for a refund? 

For a lot of customer service reps online they have quotas to meet which means they may cut corners. It's not paypal specific, unfortunately. With calling them the customer service agents are under less pressure to keep a high volume up, thus you're likely to get better results.

As a note:  When we approved this, the shouts were already on the client's page.

To our users:  Please don't participate as well.  Spamming people's shouts only make them shut down and doesn't get resolution for the OP.

To OP:  You can use more than one email for the same Paypal account.  Also, please call.  Never use their automated system.  You can still call and potentially have them reopen or pay you back out of pocket.

We've gone ahead and approved this as the oldest owed item hits our 3 month minimum.