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  • Caution: Pisqcurio/Pisq


    Mossling
    • Who: Pisqcurio/Pisq
      Where: https://twitter.com/pisqcurio
      https://www.furaffinity.net/user/pisq/
      pisquared#4876 (Discord)
      When: 09/04/2020
      What: Commission



    Message added by James,

    This item has been downgraded to a Caution by staff. 

    The Client in this transaction has submitted a post on this Artist which has also been approved.  You may see it here.

    https://artistsbeware.info/beware/submissions_11/artist-cautions/caution-mossling-r1163/

     

    Mod Note: A section of this beware has been revised to remove a segment that was communication to staff.
    It has no bearing on the approval of this entry, and the information has been placed in our archives.

    The client I would like to report is known as Piscurio/Pisquared.

    They are a former client and patron who saw fit to terminate their commission halfway through, as well as all communications while I was away for college, etc. The reason I am posting this beware is because now, after over a year, they have returned and are trying to use threats and blackmail to receive a refund when it is explicitly stated in my Terms of Service that I do not give refunds once the work has begun. Unless no work had been done yet/the commission is still waiting in 'queue', or I am unable to continue due to being hospitalized for longer than a period of 1 week, the refunds will not be given. Two separate clients have received refunds from me in the past following this policy. Once who was still in queue and needed to back out, as well as one in 2019 where I could not work as I had been fully hospitalized.

    Prior to this issue, the user received artwork from me in the form of patreon rewards. They claimed their tier’s ability to have a custom sketch done of their character, which was completed 09/17/20. They were very happy with the result and voiced no issues and we had a fairly strong relationship at the time.

     

    1.png.b3254be799b61c7354667ce262f5a404.png2.thumb.png.0269f2abecf459c42669237803d36788.png

    Prior to commissioning me fully, the user attempted to ‘haggle’ with my prices. I did not see this as a red flag initially and ignored it at the time in favor of giving them the benefit of the doubt and explaining to them why my prices were the way they were, etc. They then disappeared for some months, only to come back and go through with commissioning me at a lower price.

     

    The Issue

    The commission inquiry was made on the 09/04/20 with payment given on the 10/30/20. No set deadline was discussed with the client and they were aware that I am a college student with health issues and therefore take time working, shown by their references and thus awareness of this later on. Regardless of however long the commission would take to complete, it was clear I would honor it.

    Please review Image 0. 

    image.thumb.png.a6e70fe51b039cf68a3c7abdc588aaef.png

    3.thumb.png.d01ad585ec55c545b03f911335549f66.png

    As time went on, they began to grow impatient despite knowing that they were listed under ‘queued’ and would be until the commissions I was currently working on at the time were finished. Complaints were made and I moved them to ‘In Progress’ on November 8th, 2020 to put them at ease. An unwatermarked WIP image with the linework nearly completed was then sent to the client around November 27th, wherein small errors in the design were pointed out. These errors were made due to the client’s reference being largely unclear, but it was promised that the mistakes would be fixed and were fixed at a later date. The WIP was posted again on my discord server, where they were a member.

    4.thumb.png.5fdb1e602df827fde68d95c77c5aa25c.png

    The unwatermarked sketch, however, was deleted from direct messages when I realized the client was posting it online into their own gallery without permission. The issue was later resolved over a stream on Picarto, where I whispered them privately. The user was an active viewer of my streams at the time and would often visit to watch for several hours on end, the content of which included their own commission on many occasions. On December 11th, I marked on Trello that the sketching phase had been completed, as I had fully moved on to lineart by then. I was struggling a lot medically around this time, hence the delay in Trello being updated compared to discord.

    Despite having expedited their commission (moving it ahead of two others), starting and completing roughly half the work, the client asked for a full refund on January 31st of 2021.

    5.thumb.png.9508040b39fe9b17951ad908ae3d4a9b.png

    In response, I explained to them their options, reminded them of my terms, and once again informed them that refunds were not guaranteed at this stage. The commission was already past the sketch phase at this point, despite the client’s words, as can be seen in the earlier image of their character. While it was not complete at the time, it was well underway and at roughly 98%.

    6.thumb.png.9ae48acf1162fe29c704a28c0172ae4e.png

    I attempted to put their concerns at ease by informing them of other customers who had and were waiting just as long for their commissions, all of which were roughly the same level of complexity and cost as this client’s. It was also explained that I would, regardless of how long it took, complete the commission.

    Given that this was at the height of the pandemic, and evacuation orders were being given to neighboring colleges in response, I was often unable to respond to long periods of time. However, clients remained informed of this and whenever an update was available on my condition, their commissions, and the like. In the case of this client, I offered to DM them directly when my next stream would start so that they would be informed and could watch their commissions being worked on. The client refused and stated that they had alerts on. The third WIP image was sent to them shortly after.

    7.thumb.png.2a962e6c0002a1ff5e75309cd2f307b6.png8.thumb.png.01a83fe2416673c46cef6298970fcb1c.png

    Some weeks later, they left my server, blocked me via discord, and discontinued communication with me. I attempted to reach them and sent a friend request via discord to try and reestablish communication, but they never accepted it. Confused, I continued to work on the commission to near completion.

    With the sketching phase marked as complete, I did not mark off the next stage (lining) until much later. The reason for this being I was still trying to reestablish contact with my client and had questions that prevented me from finishing this step fully. Despite this, I continued on with the background while I waited.

    9.thumb.png.edc630302c390e51484ba8a6b705a2ad.png

    *The dates in this image as of Dec 11th will be further explained below.

    10.thumb.png.4f18e443450bfc11bddd4a16977147e3.png

    However, my time working was not without issues. I was forced to not work due to my laptop dying in March. Following this, my college issued an evacuation order in response to a breakout of COVID-19 on campus. Regardless, I continued to inform my clients and sever members of these problems via discord announcements and so on.

    11.thumb.png.59e933697e2eba457c82cad538c32bb8.png12.thumb.png.d40421bdbb92148e4660c4f354dab96d.png

    Unfortunately, the border of my country closed for several months mere hours before I could return home and I was forced to return to the US. They did not open until May 27th, which was around the same time I was allowed to arrive home being on the first flight back. From there, I updated my website, my Trello, and continued working. On June 1st, I resolved that I had waited long enough for my client to reappear and went ahead with marking off both Lining and Color as I had now completed those two steps. This was done tentatively with steps taken to allow corrections should they return.

    On August 28th, 2021, Pisqcurio sent me a message and demanded I terminate their commission for lack of communication – despite them having blocked me – and alluded that I should give them a refund while fully aware that I would not be due to the commission having been almost completed at the time of termination. Due to rising medical issues and having just returned to college, I was not active on FA and for that I take full responsibility.

    13.thumb.png.9a5194d95f3706f8b8d38a1518f8f50b.png

    On January 11th, 2022, the client reapproached me with threats of defamation and claimed I manipulated and gaslighted them when I did not. Their message was accompanied by another over discord that also included more threats, insults, and the promise to continue to harass me. Again, they asked for a refund despite knowing my terms of service and all the work that had been done. They also claimed to have sent an email to me regarding the issue, but I, to this day, have never received an email from them.

    14.thumb.png.9fffb2352414141134d93d58e97bcce8.png15.thumb.png.1616776d762a444de1608fe08803c624.png

    As can be seen by the above image, I am still, to this day, blocked by them and unable to communicate via discord. We share a server, as can be seen by the image following it, which shows that it is a block and not just us not being in the same community. Upon checking FA, I saw that I was no longer blocked and responded with a message to explain my side of the story while also trying to reason with them.

    16.thumb.png.c851f57c2ad4b5d3295d85f6baa85ea0.png

    The response I received showed their refusal to cooperate or come to an understanding.

    17.thumb.png.6fa3c080dc7a15f0320e0e36e6c03e56.png

    I responded with a reminder of what happened, once again, and finally blocked them. I am not proud of this message, but I am including it as well.

    18.thumb.png.8c0ffed056abe8bcb2ed0e241022f318.png

     

    Edit 01.19.22

    Another important thing to note is that the client claims to have emailed me on January 11th, 2022. I checked both my emails and found this;

    image_2022-01-19_190428.thumb.png.5460d26ba081f94f1ad1156105ccb6a0.png

    image_2022-01-19_190448.thumb.png.ad239b3d82aa0bc00cf288c8e702864e.png

    Absolutely nothing. Hence, either they sent their email to the wrong person or fabricated it. I do not have any emails dated on the 11th of January, 2022 from this client and have never received one since from 09/04/2020 to 01/19/2022. What I do have are a total of four twitter notifications and a Buzzly activation email.

    image_2022-01-19_190546.thumb.png.b11ce1841ad5ff74931c8c0181b37fa6.png

    image_2022-01-19_190614.thumb.png.2db827760a7c943290517974ce6329d7.png

    I checked my gmail as a courtesy, but only the one on outlook is provided or associated with the public and used as my work email.

    Edited by James
    alias/who edited to remove typos & erronious mentions. removed infodumping 1st paragraph. tagged, & paypal cap censored, put images in body of text. 01.19.22: edited in info sent by Mossling




    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments

    • Senior Staff

    While this is an unusual set of circumstances, we do have the post made by the commissioner linked at the very top of this submission (and vice-versa) to get the full scope of this matter.

    We recommend reading both to get the overall experience of this situation.

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    • Administrator

    Because folks were really confused about the [image 1] stuff, I went ahead and just dropped the images where they should go.

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    7 hours ago, bimshwel said:

    This is rather difficult to make sense of since the images seem to be all together at the end rather than mixed with the text as the text assumes they are.

     

    6 hours ago, RTKobold said:

    Some of the images are missing here as well so it's hard to tell what happened.

    Images were removed by the staff, unfortunately, and asked to be that way when I submitted it. While they have been readded, some are missing or out of order.

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    Additional images. #19/the one with the sketch to show they were a part of my discord server for a while and actively using it, fully aware that is where they received updates, and #20/their profile image showing we have a mutual server. This shows that me being unable to send them a message on Discord is not an issue with not being friends or in the same community, but a block.

    19.png

    20.png

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    • Administrator
    1 hour ago, Mossling said:

     

    Images were removed by the staff, unfortunately, and asked to be that way when I submitted it. While they have been readded, some are missing or out of order.

    We asked for the doc link to be removed, but I don't recall any of your individual images being asked to be removed.  If there's anything you'd like me to toss in beyond the other two, just let me know where they go and I'll put them in!  (In PM please 🙂 )

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    This definitely is an interesting set of circumstances. 

    In the end it is your T.O.S that they agreed to. What I do want to point out though is that the PayPal service fee you're charging on your invoices can be problematic. It should already be part of your commission charge and not a separate fee. Your account can get frozen if PayPal takes notice of it. 

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    7 hours ago, Callista said:

    This definitely is an interesting set of circumstances. 

    In the end it is your T.O.S that they agreed to. What I do want to point out though is that the PayPal service fee you're charging on your invoices can be problematic. It should already be part of your commission charge and not a separate fee. Your account can get frozen if PayPal takes notice of it. 

    Ah, I had not been aware about the service fee bit! I have seen many artists charge the same thing and thought it was fine. Thank you for the info. I will make adjustments immediately. ❤️

    8 hours ago, James said:

    We asked for the doc link to be removed, but I don't recall any of your individual images being asked to be removed.  If there's anything you'd like me to toss in beyond the other two, just let me know where they go and I'll put them in!  (In PM please 🙂 )

    I misunderstood, then. Thank you for the correction!

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    Another important thing to note is that the client claims to have emailed me on January 11th, 2022. I checked both my emails and found this;

    image.thumb.png.672a7f421f0273b198baefac5f26fed0.png

    image.thumb.png.ac8dd4a5e09ea865e140b07eaba1c779.png

    Absolutely nothing. Hence, either they sent their email to the wrong person or fabricated it. I do not have any emails dated on the 11th of January, 2022 from this client and have never received one since from 09/04/2020 to 01/19/2022. What I do have are a total of four twitter notifications and a Buzzly activation email. I checked my gmail as a courtesy, but only the one on outlook is provided or associated with the public and used as my work email.

    image.thumb.png.6bb70986d1e1add756feb25ccba69bfa.png

    image.thumb.png.4832102eaf257b1a75441b11fd7bcb9a.png

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    • Administrator
    3 minutes ago, Mossling said:

    Another important thing to note is that the client claims to have emailed me on January 11th, 2022. I checked both my emails and found this;

    image.thumb.png.672a7f421f0273b198baefac5f26fed0.png

    image.thumb.png.ac8dd4a5e09ea865e140b07eaba1c779.png

    Absolutely nothing. Hence, either they sent their email to the wrong person or fabricated it. I do not have any emails dated on the 11th of January, 2022 from this client and have never received one since from 09/04/2020 to 01/19/2022. What I do have are a total of four twitter notifications and a Buzzly activation email. I checked my gmail as a courtesy, but only the one on outlook is provided or associated with the public and used as my work email.

    image.thumb.png.6bb70986d1e1add756feb25ccba69bfa.png

    image.thumb.png.4832102eaf257b1a75441b11fd7bcb9a.png

    I've approved this, but let's avoid hurling accusations of fabrication that can't be proven or disproven at the moment as it isn't helpful.  @pisqcurio can you provide a screencap of the email with the heading visible?

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    • Senior Staff

    This is not meant to discredit either party, but I am mildly curious if any of the correspondence may have been sent to spam by the mail services' filters?
    I don't believe spam-flagged messages would show up in your search through the inboxes as you have demonstrated here.

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    On 1/19/2022 at 8:51 AM, James said:

    I've approved this, but let's avoid hurling accusations of fabrication that can't be proven or disproven at the moment as it isn't helpful.  @pisqcurio can you provide a screencap of the email with the heading visible?

    I've sent this with email via messages, along with proof that this is a failure of understanding discord functionality, not reading discord's own message, and is not a block.

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    On 2/3/2022 at 11:20 PM, pisqcurio said:

    I've sent this with email via messages, along with proof that this is a failure of understanding discord functionality, not reading discord's own message, and is not a block.

    Not what they asked. You were asked to show the image properly, not with information hidden. Discord does not tell you if someone blocked you and only displayed a regular message of being unable to add or send another person a message. You have failed to understand its own function.

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    Why did you continue working on the commission, even though you didn't get feedback from your customer?

    Furthermore you mention that you tried to reestablish contact, but then why didn’t you try to message your customer through other methods as soon as you realized that Discord is not working anymore?

    Pisqcurio apparently wasn't on your discord server, therefore couldn't read your announcements there either. In my opinion you should message your customers directly about it in any case, because it is not guaranteed that they read all these announcements.

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    • Senior Staff

    Concerning the matter of the missing email, Pisq was in contact with staff to discuss the missing proof from their end.

    We have concluded that it was likely this message never made it to Mossling due to the fallibility of technology; its not unheard of for emails to just be eaten and never make it to the intended recipient.

    Staff tested sending an email between the two respective mail providers, a clean Gmail Account and a clean Outlook account were utilized, and what we saw is that Outlook promptly put the test email from our Gmail sender into Junk without notifying us.

    Given the circumstances that arose here, we were lead to believe that the email may have gone to junk and was automatically deleted by Outlook without Mossling ever knowing about it.

    Furthermore, Pisq has acknowledged that the breakdown in communications was an issue that is as much their fault as it is Mossling's.

    Mossling has made it clear that they made missteps in this situation, but the client also admits that they took multiple steps to bar contact without informing the artist.

    This is not a situation without blame from both sides, and we ask that further commentary remain constructive and abstains from antagonizing either party.

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