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  • RyunWoofie: 4+ years of waiting for one paid, single character commission


    jarmenj
    • Who: Ryunwoofie
      Where: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/ryunwoofie
      When: 02/26/2015
      What: Commission
      NSFW Content

    In February 2015, I commissioned RyunWoofie for a $25.00 USD colored sketch. She accepted my payment on February 26, 2015 and several months passed. I try to be gentle with my reminders, not poke and prod every week or month...just a reminder every few months / some chit chat about what could be causing the delay. During these months, I change my mind on which character to feature. She delivers a work-in progress in November 2015. I request some fixes to fit my character Syldria's proportions more accurately and she says OK sure.

    Some more time passes, artist mentions they'd like to use my WIP sketch as a YCH instead  while allowing me to consider another idea. Idea is pitched, many more months pass and I remind her again in 2016. Okay sure, life grabs you by the horns sometimes...I let it slide. Several months pass again. I sent my occasional friendly inquiry/reminder and more excuses are given, with assurance that my picture will be done "soon". Concrete estimations of time, mind you, for a picture that's already a year late. Work isn't delivered, meanwhile she's been streaming commissions on demand to other clients within her picarto channel.

    She posts a journal update somewhere between 2015 and now with a whole bunch of clients waiting for their work, and upgrades the quality for those who have been waiting the longest. If you're promised a Shaded picture from a colored sketch, over 1000 days pass without an updated, upgraded picture, while hundreds of stream commissions have been done, how would that make you feel? Here is the Trello queue: https://trello.com/b/qZzbxjGv/commissions-in-progress-refunds

    I get it, Art is income. Income comes from new commissions, but what about my owed artwork? Note after note, she tells me she'll finish by X date, and there has been no WIPs or anything sent since the initial WIP turned YCH. You can't just sweep your past clients under the rug and under a mountain of new artwork done ON DEMAND in a livestream. I've remained neutral with my interactions with Ryun, and she has with me...I'm not a dick, but this sort of client treatment reeks of being taken advantage of due to my chill demeanor. It may be only a $25 commission, but you can't treat other people like this.

    Attached is the payment record on PayPal and our conversations spanning from 2015-2018, the last of which being July of last year. There has been countless posts of art from her since then and the majority of them from stream clients on demand, being done in short order. Also attached is the WIP sent to me November 2015, dated in my email with today's date and the original watermarked rough sketch stage of the only work she's sent me since February 2015. It is now March 2019.

     A disappointed client,

    Jarmenj

    RyunWoofiePayment.png

    Ryun2015-1.png

    Ryun2015-2.png

    Ryun2015-3.png

    Ryun2016-1.png

    Ryun2017-1.png

    Ryun2018-1.png

    Received WIP from Ryunwoofie oninNov2015 .png

    Magejarmenj.png



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    Have you asked for a refund, or are you set on the art? The artists commissioned me, twice, I believe, during your time period, so they can, potentially, refund you.

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    24 minutes ago, theodor said:

    Have you asked for a refund, or are you set on the art? The artists commissioned me, twice, I believe, during your time period, so they can, potentially, refund you.

    Asking for a refund after this period of waiting would be admitting defeat and saying it's okay to treat clients like this, to be honest. Would you, after 4 years of waiting?

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    As someone whos been waiting nearly 3 years for a commisson I know exactly how you feel. I don't know how some people think this is at all acceptable practice. I hope you get something at the end of all this. Tbh if I was this artist at the *least* offer some kind of compensation for this absurd wait.

    Edited by accessdenied
    typo

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    The way Ryan treats her customers is bad.  The first times she was AB'd she worked to resolve the problem and issued refunds.  The last time someone posted a beware she kept promising the refund and dragged her heels on delivering.  It makes me wonder if she is stopped caring.

    I feel like she has some problematic business practices.  Her terms of service state that if she doesn't feel like doing a commission she can cancel and issue only a partial refund. I would be worried that if I hired her she would nuke her backlog and go, nope, you're not getting a full refund. I'm pretty sure she spends the money before doing the work, because a she often can't issue a prompt refund.  She constantly promises refund streams to her customers and then takes on new work instead.  And I feel like she gets too personal with her clients.  There's always some excuse, like she is too exhausted, her child is clingy and won't let her work, etcetera.  She needs to get her act together, refund people and quit taking on so much work.

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    4 hours ago, jarmenj said:

    Asking for a refund after this period of waiting would be admitting defeat and saying it's okay to treat clients like this, to be honest. Would you, after 4 years of waiting?

    This is some backwards logic in my opinion. First of all, a commission shouldn't be a competition with a victory state and a defeat state, and if you're at a point where you're viewing it that way, I think it's time to give up the commission personally. Second, asking for your money back and deciding against doing business with someone is exactly how you tell an artist that it's not okay to treat clients like that. Allowing the artist to keep the money indefinitely in some kind of endurance battle to see who gives out first doesn't really translate to "I don't approve of how you treat me as a customer." Refusing to continue to be their customer, by asking for a refund, seems far more effective.

    This isn't a fight, this isn't a game of chicken, there's no "defeat", there's just $25 you need to decide if you'd like back or not.

    But whatever, that's just me onion.

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    24 minutes ago, flucket said:

    This is some backwards logic in my opinion. First of all, a commission shouldn't be a competition with a victory state and a defeat state, and if you're at a point where you're viewing it that way, I think it's time to give up the commission personally. Second, asking for your money back and deciding against doing business with someone is exactly how you tell an artist that it's not okay to treat clients like that. Allowing the artist to keep the money indefinitely in some kind of endurance battle to see who gives out first doesn't really translate to "I don't approve of how you treat me as a customer." Refusing to continue to be their customer, by asking for a refund, seems far more effective.

    This isn't a fight, this isn't a game of chicken, there's no "defeat", there's just $25 you need to decide if you'd like back or not.

    But whatever, that's just me onion.

    Yes, it's your own thoughts on the matter and you dumbed it down to "take it or leave it", but c'mon, look at that list of other people waiting for work, too.

    The funny part about your first part of this post is she actually gave a bonus sketch back in 2011 for hiding one of my other characters behind a sleigh while most other characters of that holiday themed image were much more visible.

    She went from caring about a customer to not.

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    Additionally, the whole point of AB is to spread awareness to others. This isn't just about a rather small transaction.

    Edited by jarmenj
    Spelling error

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    5 hours ago, jarmenj said:

    Asking for a refund after this period of waiting would be admitting defeat and saying it's okay to treat clients like this, to be honest. Would you, after 4 years of waiting?

    Imo at this point a refund may be your best option. I know she makes more via her sketches than your original commission's cost, and she probably could knock out a refund sketch quicker than completing your image.

    Obviously it's not ideal to take more comms to refund comms, but its frustrating to not see you made whole for 4 years.

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    20 minutes ago, Celestina said:

    Imo at this point a refund may be your best option. I know she makes more via her sketches than your original commission's cost, and she probably could knock out a refund sketch quicker than completing your image.

    Obviously it's not ideal to take more comms to refund comms, but its frustrating to not see you made whole for 4 years.

    The annoying part is the "Shaded upgrade" carrot being dangled in front of my face and the constant excuses...also how past commissions were exemplary when it comes to customer service.

    [Edited to remove proxy, sorry!]

    Maybe pitching to her that I can participate in one of those sketch streams for what was promised or just the original sketch, perhaps?

    We're not on bad terms, and I'm thinking from the artist-client relationship's perspective plus spreading awareness of my experience. I even mentioned i was thinking of posting an AB in one of those attached notes!

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    7 hours ago, Celestina said:

    I'm on mobile, and will get to it when I can!

    Cool, thanks.

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    12 hours ago, jarmenj said:

    Yes, it's your own thoughts on the matter and you dumbed it down to "take it or leave it", but c'mon, look at that list of other people waiting for work, too.

    Okay, well, I don't see how it was "dumbed down" to that when those are literally the only two options here? You can either wait for the commission or ask for a refund. Or I guess give up on seeing your money and your art altogether, but that doesn't sound like a fun result. Forgive me if there's another option I'm not seeing here. 😕

    And looking at that list of other people waiting for work is... exactly why I'd ask for a refund myself. You posed the hypothetical question "would other people would take a refund after four years", the answer for me would be a resounding yes because at that point even if I got the art, looking at it leave a bitter taste in my mouth. If you're absolutely set on the art, though, I'd recommend being a little less chill and a little more firm. You shouldn't have to be the one chasing the artist around, but as you said, it reads a lot like an artist taking advantage of a very laid back personality to put off giving results, maybe prioritising some of those many other waiting clients who are less chill (This isn't me putting the blame on you in any way, just agreeing that they are probably taking advantage of your attitude).

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    1 hour ago, flucket said:

    Okay, well, I don't see how it was "dumbed down" to that when those are literally the only two options here? You can either wait for the commission or ask for a refund. Or I guess give up on seeing your money and your art altogether, but that doesn't sound like a fun result. Forgive me if there's another option I'm not seeing here. 😕

    And looking at that list of other people waiting for work is... exactly why I'd ask for a refund myself. You posed the hypothetical question "would other people would take a refund after four years", the answer for me would be a resounding yes because at that point even if I got the art, looking at it leave a bitter taste in my mouth. If you're absolutely set on the art, though, I'd recommend being a little less chill and a little more firm. You shouldn't have to be the one chasing the artist around, but as you said, it reads a lot like an artist taking advantage of a very laid back personality to put off giving results, maybe prioritising some of those many other waiting clients who are less chill (This isn't me putting the blame on you in any way, just agreeing that they are probably taking advantage of your attitude).

    You're right about me being too lenient.

    I suppose 8 years commissioning artists don't let a few bad apples spoil the bushel, so to speak. I've had 2 instances of work taking years, Ryun here and one artist who supposedly ran off with customer's money and disappeared for a few years. Said artist made a return in 2016 after disappearing in 2012 and made good after 4 years of vanishing and completed the entire backlog.

    I did go ahead and mention the idea of attending one of those streams to finally have some closure on this commish.

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    I used to commission her frequently until the excuses started piling up the last commission I had gotten from her, and I was really nervous seeing my work being completed the day after it was commissioned before anyone on her backlog's. It's not fair to those who have been waiting years for a refund or something, a WIP even.

    You need to demand a refund. Don't ask for it. State that you've been waiting long enough. This is not acceptable. 

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    Here, I'll help you:

    "Hi, Ryun. I thought about our commission. I would like to set a hard deadline for completion of the artwork.  Can you finish it by [DATE]? If you can't complete the commission by then, I will ask for a refund of (AMOUNT PAID) to my Paypal account (PAYPAL ACCOUNT ADDRESS), no later than (WHATEVER DATE YOU GIVE HER). I enjoy your artwork, but it's been four years since the commission was accepted. I would like to wrap things up.

    I have posted my concerns about this commission on Artists Beware.  I am hoping we can resolve this so I can inform the community our transaction ended on a positive note."

    OR

    "Hi Ryun, I thought about our commission.  It's been four years since the commission was accepted.  I've decided I would like to wrap things up.  Please send a refund of (AMOUNT PAID) to my Paypal account (PAYPAL ACCOUNT ADDRESS) no later than (WHATEVER DATE YOU GIVE HER). I think it would be in our best interests, as you seem very busy, and I no longer want to wait. I have posted my concerns about this commission on Artists Beware.  I am hoping we can resolve this so I can inform the community our transaction ended on a positive note."

     

    And it's really bad she chooses to complete new commissions over her backlog....

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    I'm going to remind you guys to knock off pushing the OP to get a refund.

    They do not want a refund. They want the art.

    Please do not disrespect their desires in this.

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    Update: Ryun responded to my note inquiring about attending a stream commish session. Will keep the thread updated if I do receive something or not.

    yBvi4rg.png

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